Adding a Mirrorless, Maybe a switch.

Because basically I'm not 100% sold on Mirrorless being the be-all-end-all.. Especially when it comes to the uber long lenses and AF performance. So think of it as im buying a supplement now with an option to go all in down the line perhaps (My gut still tells me that for the long work, ie, 150-600 type of work, a DSLR is still superior...especially since the mirrorless stuff doesnt have uber long wildlife lenses. So at worst id probubly keep my 7D and throw a Sigma 150-600 on there till it dies)

Been a while since I was here. But yeah, currently I have a 7D and a nice selection of lenses, and dont get me wrong, I adore my 7D (I've owned it since it launched too..) but the 7D just gets too much unwanted attention anymore, so I've barely taken it out of the house to shoot anymore, which kinda depresses me. Basically I want something a bit more discrete, Smaller, lighter and easier to handle, but that still has its lovely IQ (I'm quite out of it i know, I've seen what the newer cams can do) For lenses I have the Tokina 11-16, Canon 15-85, Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Canon 70-200 f/4L IS, 100mm f/2.8L IS. Always been a glass person, if anyone remembers me

What do i shoot? A lot of things, Macro, wildlife, Food, etc, My gallery is here: https://www.flickr.com​/photos/kitsunetsukiph​oto/

What do i want? Simple, I want a nice camera, with good solid autofocus, a viewfinder, good image quality, but most importantly, I want some nice glass to go with it, Preferably, i dont want the bulk of my system to be converted. To start, I want a body and a solid lens in the 35-50mm equivalent range. if i have some extra money id also like dropping money on a macro lens of some kind too.

My options, thus far, have been the Sony a6000, Olympus OM-D EM10 II and the Panasonic G7. I have actually gone and played with all of the options, I like all three. The Sony makes me nervous due to the lenses... they seem eh or incredibly expensive from what ive been reading.

That said, i was also leaving this up to someone else to be "surprised" but i think they're going to give up and just tell me to pick something. Figure about a grand for a body and a lens.

Tis good to be back

I now have 3 mirrorlesss cameras, because they are simply astounding for video work. The G7 is a fabulous little camera. It feels cheap, but is easy to use, and the little 25F1.7 is a treat to shoot with.
Have you checked out the Fuji XT-1? The A6000 might be my pick if I wasn't doing 4K video stuff.

I have the oly E-m1 and 10 and find they work great for wildlife. I have a Panny 100-300 (200-600 equivalent) that gets me pretty good reach. Unless I know I will be looking for BIF shots I leave the 7D and 100-400 home.

I have a Sony A6000 which I recently bought kind of as a fun toy to shoot all my old MF lenses on, using adapters. I only have the kit 16-50 lens in Sony AF, so I'm no help there. You're right the better lenses do seem pricey.

Lens selection aside, I don't think I could ever see myself switching away from the DSLR full time. The Sony is kind of cumbersome, requiring too much diving into the menu to make some of the most basic settings. Yes, there are buttons that can be customized, but every time I set one custom function, another pressing need pops up and I want to switch it to something else. Maybe if there were four or five custom buttons... Maybe eventually I will settle on some settings that work best for me.

Battery life is very small. It seems like I'll take a few pics, then study them on the monitor, then re-shoot a few of them, and suddenly the battery life has dropped from 99% to 70% just like that. And last night, it was running around 60% when I put it away for the night but checking it just now, I noticed I'd left it on overnight and now the battery life was only 10%! So now its back on the charger for its 3+ hour charge. If I decide to take this camera seriously I'll buy not one but probably two spare batteries.

I'm not a big fan of the EVF. In fact, I find it awkward and hard to see, and I don't even wear glasses. I know some people love the EVF in the A6000 but coming from the large, bright and crisp optical viewfinders in my DSLRs I just do not see it here with the mirrorless. I use the monitor instead.

Maybe I will warm up to the camera in time, we shall see.

the only cameras I know that will supplement well without any native lenses are the A7ii and A7rii. No other camera can adapt canon lenses as well as those mentioned. You can retain phase detect AF. The A7ii is slightly out of your budget, even used, however the 7D will become a paper weight if you ever used one.

I picked up a X-T1 and ended up selling my 7D and rest of my Canon gear a year later. That said, I don't shoot sports anymore either. After using the X-T1 for a while, that 7D viewfinder didn't seem as big and bright as it used to be!

The issue with Fuji is price basically, its really at the upper end of my budget, IIRC the XT10 + one of the 35mm lenses (f/2 or f/1.4) is $1200-1400, The cheaper body lacks a viewfinder unfortunately.. which is something i KNOW id want, but at that point you can easily get the A7 for about $1000 with the corresponding increase in IQ and that lovely FF look. Im also not a huge fan of the XT10's ergonomics, i played with one and i was kinda eh to it. Tho i loved the viewfinder

Speaking of the A7, i DID consider stretching my budget a bit and trying to nab one while i still can.

See my issue for long lenses on any of the mirrorless bodies is no matter what, a long lens is going to be a -big- lens, the Oly 40-150 f/2.8 looked pretty bloody cool though (And that MFD.. the psuedo-macro things it can pull off sound awesome for me.. its something like 1:2.7? NIFTY!)

My fear on mirrorless, just about any of them in fact, is they wont hold up the way my 7D has, that thing is a tank, its been through a lot and still works 100% perfectly. i LOVE my 7D.

I did go and do one thing i should have done and pull up examples on Flickr in the groups for various lenses, I'd say Sony stuff just doesnt look good on a photozone chart, but the images ive seen look great with a really nice "look" to the images, Especially from the Zeiss stuff

I've added a Fuji Xt-1 for similar reasons. Smaller, lighter and more discrete than my Canon's.

The Fuji is a little pricey but its a great camera. I payed with the XT-10 and didn't much care for it over the XT-1.

Fuji have a put a lot of effort into the XT-1, its well built and the "retro" style is a lot fun to use.

I think you can get the typical body + 2 kit lens + fast prime for around your budget in either Sony or Micro 4/3 system. A6000 or OMD-EM10, as you stated. I've used the Olympus 25mm 1.8 before and it's a nice little lens, quite sharp, fairly compact, and fast AF. That's the one I'd recommend, although people seem to like the 17mm 1.8 as well.

I've kind of given up on the Sony system for a while. The really good stuff I'd want is above my price range, and having tried some of the earlier Nex cameras and a Sony A7, there's just something about Sony cameras that I just can't get into. Can't quite put my finger on it though. I do have an RX-100 I love though.

I think the Micro 43 is the perfect complementary system if you aren't willing to go 100% into mirrorless. There are compact and fairly inexpensive lens and body options.

Well fun news, the person didnt chicken out on the challenge and apparently has given getting me a mirrorless camera of some form a second try (First try was the a6000..... with a 55-210.. Not..exactly what i wanted or could use)

Absolutely NO clue what they did, They asked me about the GX7 a few times though.. So that might be it? Dunno

Not sure on the lens, I sold off my 28mm f/1.8 in anticipation, given that lens is being "replaced" by this

Your probably asking alot of questions because of the unknown.

If your thinking about M43 I'd suggest simply buying an Olympus EM1 with hybrid AF (new or used) and pick up the huge selection of lenses.

Just warning you about any mirrorless system that uses contrast detection AF. Your 7D hammer's the shots due to phase detect AF. With contrast detection your at the mercy of the situation that's occuring in the viewfinder/frame. Don't get mad if your subject gets out of focus and you back focus. Just remember phase detection is your best friend.

If your getting into mirrorless I'd strongly suggest getting a body that has some form of hybrid AF. This way if you miss a shot it's due to photographer error and NOT gear.

The A6000 has nice images as well as video capabilities but no 3.5mm mic jack. Play and have fun!! it's has hybrid AF.

The A7 mk1 will work fine for you but it's doesn't have the 7d AF system. The A7 will put the 7d image quality to severe shame IMO. Pick your gear based on your demands and application.

I've shot with the 7d. If you look into a M43 body you can get some expensive glass that will provide comparable IQ to a crop sensor 7d. IMO my aging Olympus OMD EM-5 with 25 f/1.4 panny/leica lens can be as good as any Canon crop sensor with 35L. However the 7D will hammer the accuracy in run/gun situations better than most "contrast detection" mirrorless camera.

Appears most of your photos are static subjects or slow moving anyways...... The EM-1 would be a very good fast focusing accurate Micro 4/3 body. My panasonic GH3 and Olympus EM-5 performs "ok" for slow moving subjects but contrast AF truly sucks. When I need to shoot professional events I will not even touch my M43 gear. I may purchase an Olympus EM-1 so I can stop complaining about missing shots. I use my M43 for pure casual family documentation. I'll admit I've documented Bday parties using my gh3 for video. Recently purchased a flagship panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 zoom and I'll have to say it's IQ is as good as my 24-70L mk1. For me to say this is "not easy to say"........

If I were you I'd buy a spider holster and shoot your 7d and put it on your hip strapless. I wouldn't careless what people think of a dlsr hanging on your side. I shoot my 5d2 and 5d3 a lot just in family outings. I'll use my gh3 for excellent HD video using a shotgun mic with dead kitten sometimes.

If your shooting static subjects and willing to spend more $$$ just stop fussing and buy a Sony A7. The noise control is kinda similar to a 5dmk2 and the images will be sharp with the full frame look due to the dof capabilities!!

Jumping into mirrorless and asking questions on a forum is a great wonderful way of messin' with your head LOL!!!!

I've played with the flagship fuji and it's fun and kinda clunky IMO but everyone has a preference. The EM-1 is retro-ish and fun too. The M43 world has been kicking around a bit longer so there's alot of lens selection that is reasonable to $$$$. If you want to get annoyed go buy a contrast detection AF body. If you want to eliminate buyers remorse I'd think long and hard and select a body with phase detection or "hybrid" af.

The panasonic gX7 and Gx8 use contrast detection. At least the GX8 uses Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology so it's suppose to be better than a typical contrast detection system. The gh4 was the first panny to have this "new tech" AF system. I'm not sure if you must use panny lenses to maximize this DFD system.

Go to as many camera shops and play with gear...or rent. I still cannot go fully mirrorless. I still rely on my canon gear for crucial events.

AlanU wrote in post #17843695
Your probably asking alot of questions because of the unknown.

If your thinking about M43 I'd suggest simply buying an Olympus EM1 with hybrid AF (new or used) and pick up the huge selection of lenses.

[edited for length]

Excellent points, You're correct in that the 7D's AF is one HUGE reason I hesitate with Mirrorless, I've played with every camera I've mentioned above at least and gotten a good feel with them, I'd genuinely like almost every one of them (I see an advantage here or there with equal disadvantages) I'm very much a glass > camera person

As for the "dont care about what others think" bit, its gotten me in trouble RE cops a few times, That is the bigger issue, i break no laws, im doing nothing wrong, but its still very stressful for me dealing with cops threatening me because one of my neighbors decides to be unneighborly. The second issue is more pragmatic, Carrying the 7D constantly is simply quite heavy, and i still havn't been satisfied with any "normal" lens ive tried to get on the 7D (The 35 f/2 had terrible bokeh, the 28 1/8 flared at the drop of a hat, the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 was the ONLY bad Sigma ive ever received etc..admittedly no 35L yet or Sigma 35, but i think before i dropped the cash on one of those id get a 6D or something and use my awesome Sigmalux) so the way i looked at it, i can simply get a camera better suited for certain situations, the 7D is still better for wildlife like birds and animals and anything that moves, I mean, Canon has over 35, almost 40 years of the EOS system and AF experience, Mirrorless is getting better, but i still think they're a couple years off from getting that level of accuracy and tracking performance.

On top of THAT when i talk "wildlife" lens, i think immediately of something in the category of the Sigma 150-600, and when we discuss THAT kind of lens i think the mirrorless camera is no longer the issue when it comes to size and weight, Probubly why all the mirrorless systems lack something similar (Micro 4/3 DOES have the Oly 40-150 though, a lens that peaks my curiousity for a number of reasons) so basically, the 7D should stay in my system as my go-to wildlife and "dedicated" trip camera.

Now, For macro shooting, i see mirrorless offering some solid advantages, most of the mirrorless cameras have tilty-flippy wonder screens, Super useful for macro work, As are EVF viewfinders that give me a really good view of DoF. If we talk m4/3, the fact you get more DoF at a given aperture becomes an immense advantage, Better question is if id miss the epic Hybrid-IS on my 100L... but as i said, only one way to find out.

I think overall, im deciding to "dip my toe" so to speak, get a mirrorless camera, a couple solid primes(Standard and macro most likely), and use it in addition to the 7D for a while. The 7D has a ton of advantages over any mirrorless i mentioned (Stronger battery life, better AF, better burst shooting endurance, actual reliable weather sealing, more lens selection) that makes it a good body when i go on a specific trip to take specific pictures.. the Mirrorless is more "it goes everywhere with me so i always have a good camera" and from my perspective, m4/3 seems to fit that bill, Especially since most of the lenses are significantly less expensive and on the whole, solid lenses (the a6000 is no doubt better from a pure IQ standpoint but a lot of the cheap lenses are cheap and -dreadful-, the 35mm f/3.5 Macro comes to mind, Come on Sony how do you screw up a MACRO?!) I can likely get a mirrorless and 2 primes that weigh in under my 7D body after all

Eventually my 7D should evolve, a cheap 5DIII or something used perhaps, Maybe a 1Ds. Lots of options i can think of if i dont have to have a body i can "Compromise" with (IE it doesnt HAVE to be compact enough to go everywhere with me if i have a mirrorless that does that)

That said as i said before, originally this was a present that had to be returned because an a6000 + 55-210 is not what i was looking for at all, They tried again after doing more research and me giving more specific criteria, So ill find out what i got, I think they went m4/3 though, Theres just a lot of choice in m4/3 lenses after all.. the only downside is theres not a lot of threads here dedicated to m4/3.

AlanU wrote in post #17843695
Your probably asking alot of questions because of the unknown.

If your thinking about M43 I'd suggest simply buying an Olympus EM1 with hybrid AF (new or used) and pick up the huge selection of lenses.

Just warning you about any mirrorless system that uses contrast detection AF. Your 7D hammer's the shots due to phase detect AF. With contrast detection your at the mercy of the situation that's occuring in the viewfinder/frame. Don't get mad if your subject gets out of focus and you back focus. Just remember phase detection is your best friend.

If your getting into mirrorless I'd strongly suggest getting a body that has some form of hybrid AF. This way if you miss a shot it's due to photographer error and NOT gear.

The A6000 has nice images as well as video capabilities but no 3.5mm mic jack. Play and have fun!! it's has hybrid AF.

The A7 mk1 will work fine for you but it's doesn't have the 7d AF system. The A7 will put the 7d image quality to severe shame IMO. Pick your faster based on your demands and application.

I've shot with the 7d. If you look into a M43 body you can get some expensive glass that will provide comparable IQ to a crop sensor 7d. IMO my aging Olympus OMD EM-5 with 25 f/1.4 panny/leica lens can be as good as any Canon crop sensor with 35L. However the 7D will hammer the accuracy in run/gun situations better than most "contrast detection" mirrorless camera.

Appears most of your photos are static subjects or slow moving anyways...... The EM-1 would be a very good fast focusing accurate Micro 4/3 body. My panasonic GH3 and Olympus EM-5 performs "ok" for slow moving subjects but contrast AF truly sucks. When I need to shoot professional events I will not even touch my M43 gear. I may purchase an Olympus EM-1 so I can stop complaining about missing shots. I use my M43 for pure casual family documentation. I'll admit I've documented Bday parties using my gh3 for video. Recently purchased a flagship panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 zoom and I'll have to say it's IQ is as good as my 24-70L mk1. For me to say this is "not easy to say"........

If I were you I'd buy a spider holster and shoot your 7d and put it on your hip strapless. I wouldn't careless what people think of a dlsr hanging on your side. I shoot my 5d2 and 5d3 a lot just in family outings. I'll use my gh3 for excellent HD video using a shotgun mic with dead kitten sometimes.

If your shooting static subjects and willing to spend more $$$ just stop fussing and buy a Sony A7. The noise control is kinda similar to a 5dmk2 and the images will be sharp with the full frame look due to the dof capabilities!! WARNING it's contrast detection so there's a chance you'll get some back focus.

Jumping into mirrorless and asking questions on a forum is a great wonderful way of messin' with your head LOL!!!!

I've played with the flagship fuji and it's fun and kinda clunky IMO but everyone has a preference. The EM-1 is retro-ish and fun too. The M43 world has been kicking around a bit longer so there's alot of lens selection that is reasonable to $$$$. If you want to get annoyed go buy a contrast detection AF body. If you want to eliminate buyers remorse I'd think long and hard and select a body with phase detection or "hybrid" af.

The panasonic gX7 and Gx8 use contrast detection. At least the GX8 uses Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology so it's suppose to be better than a typical contrast detection system. The gh4 was the first panny to have this "new tech" AF system. I'm not sure if you must use panny lenses to maximize this DFD system.

Go to as many camera shops and play with gear...or rent. I still cannot go fully mirrorless. I still rely on my canon gear for crucial events.

Phase detection AF is actually less accurate than Contrast detection, it's just a lot faster (generally).

Huh? There was complaints how the Sony A7R backfocused often enough to ruffle some feathers. There's a reason why many high RES junkies are drooling over the A7R mk2 with the better phase detection AF system.

My previous post I think i gave some incorrect info. The A7 apparently has phase detection AF (late night rambling).

For Run/Gun events photography even my 5dmk2 with primitive AF system did a very good job of not messing up pivotal moments. I know as a fact that both my OMD EM-5 or GH3 would be far from that kind of accuracy. Scary thing is the 5dmk2 AF system is as clunky as my canon 5d classic mk1 but faster in AF speed.

Contrast detection can get confused depending on the environment your shooting. Even my old Canon XTI did not miss a shot like my EM-5 or GH3.

This is where people appreciated the newer higher tech contrast detection (DFD) that Panny put in the gh4 and now GX8. The Oly EM-1 has hybrid phase and contrast detection AF so it's stupid fast and accurate.

Every time I visited my local camera shop I've almost dropped money on an A7S and A7mk1 when they first came out. Now that I have some investment in the M43 world I'll wait for newer bodies introducing phase detection/hybrid af. I'll eventually purchase into the alpha series but the issue is I'm heavily invested in the Canon platform and now willing to loose $$ on a system that delivers the kind of images I want for family documentation and clients. I'll eventually jump ship out of the m43 world once I dive into Sony Alpha series....just not yet.

What sometimes people miss is not only landing the shot relying on AF but also thinking more and being 100% confident of capturing "moments" and with 300dpi print even nice point and shoots like the Canon G9x or Sony RX100 mk1,2,3,4 provides incredible images and most importantly human emotions etc. When your camera back focuses due to contrast detection getting confused....that's BAD!! This is why point and shoots are great for simplicity and casual purposes.

This is where contrast detection has failed me in certain times. That is unacceptable and the reason why I stress that hybrid AF in mirrorless camera's is very important. Speed of contrast detection is meaningless when it provides you a back focused image or blurry ones.

AlanU wrote in post #17843925
Huh? There was complaints how the Sony A7R backfocused often enough to ruffle some feathers. There's a reason why many high RES junkies are drooling over the A7R mk2 with the better phase detection AF system.

My previous post I think i gave some incorrect info. The A7 apparently has phase detection AF (late night rambling).

For Run/Gun events photography even my 5dmk2 with primitive AF system did a very good job of not messing up pivotal moments. I know as a fact that both my OMD EM-5 or GH3 would be far from that kind of accuracy. Scary thing is the 5dmk2 AF system is as clunky as my canon 5d classic mk1 but faster in AF speed.

Contrast detection can get confused depending on the environment your shooting. Even my old Canon XTI did not miss a shot like my EM-5 or GH3.

This is where people appreciated the newer higher tech contrast detection (DFD) that Panny put in the gh4 and now GX8. The Oly EM-1 has hybrid phase and contrast detection AF so it's stupid fast and accurate.

Every time I visited my local camera shop I've almost dropped money on an A7S and A7mk1 when they first came out. Now that I have some investment in the M43 world I'll wait for newer bodies introducing phase detection/hybrid af. I'll eventually purchase into the alpha series but the issue is I'm heavily invested in the Canon platform and now willing to loose $$ on a system that delivers the kind of images I want for family documentation and clients. I'll eventually jump ship out of the m43 world once I dive into Sony Alpha series....just not yet.

What sometimes people miss is not only landing the shot relying on AF but also thinking more and being 100% confident of capturing "moments" and with 300dpi print even nice point and shoots like the Canon G9x or Sony RX100 mk1,2,3,4 provides incredible images and most importantly human emotions etc. When your camera back focuses due to contrast detection getting confused....that's BAD!! This is why point and shoots are great for simplicity and casual purposes.

This is where contrast detection has failed me in certain times. That is unacceptable and the reason why I stress that hybrid AF in mirrorless camera's is very important. Speed of contrast detection is meaningless when it provides you a back focused image or blurry ones.

Contrast detection has been tested and proven to be more accurate, it's just not good at tracking. Newer cameras have gotten better and better with it too, my a7S rarely misses and when it does it's usually my fault (too big of a point).

http://www.imaging-resource.com …oint-single-shot-accuracy

There are a bunch of tests like this all over the place if you poke around.