Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 03 Jan 2016 (Sunday) 00:20
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

I need your honest opinion!!

 
this thread is locked
BlakeC
"Dad was a meat cutter"
Avatar
2,673 posts
Gallery: 372 photos
Likes: 675
Joined Jul 2014
Location: West Michigan, USA
     
Jan 04, 2016 15:15 |  #31

It's just difficult for me to visualize what you are selling. I need to see a finished product.


Blake C
BlakeC-Photography.com (external link)
Follow Me on Facebook (external link) , Instagram (external link), or Google+ (external link)
80D |70D | SL1 - Σ 18-35 1.8 ART, Σ 50-100 1.8 ART, Σ 17-50 2.8, Canon 24 2.8 Pancake, Canon 50 1.8 STM, Canon 10-18 STM, Canon 18-135 STM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
     
Jan 04, 2016 15:18 as a reply to  @ post 17844391 |  #32

Sure, I will create one and will post it here.

Thanks again.

Warm Regards!


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
Post edited over 3 years ago by avim.
     
Jan 04, 2016 15:26 |  #33

BlakeC wrote in post #17844393 (external link)
It's just difficult for me to visualize what you are selling. I need to see a finished product.

I will create one as it is a photographer video with a strong call to action at the end of the video and will post it on youtube, facebook and here!
mark this thread so you could see it!

P.S. as I wrote That I want to make some for free so I will have real examples. so if anyone wants, just let me know! Thanks!


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
     
Jan 04, 2016 15:58 |  #34

Let me break it down further.

Using one of your videos embedded as a website portfolio...

This is one option for the use of the content you generate. However it is not particularly good for the vast majority of mobile users. They just don't watch video for as long on those on desktops. Besides it is a vastly inferior portfolio display compared to all the highly effective ones already available for free for use on websites. Ones I might add are easy to update (again for free) and more user friendly as far as use by the end user (consumer) goes. If a photographer is going to have a slideshow video of any sort it will not be a main sales funnel feature as the users are already on the website at that point. It would only really be of any use if it was different to cookie cutter looking... which your products are not.

Using one of your videos on YouTube...

Firstly the photographer is going to need a YouTube channel with followers if people are going to see it. You've only really got Twitter as a promotion for the YouTube video as you'll be directing Facebook users to the facebook version. Double promoting the YouTube clip on both Twitter and Facebook would just create more noise on Facebook.

So the photographer is going to have to have Twitter follower and/or YouTube followers to get them to see the video on YouTube... unless it goes viral which vanilla content won't. So if they don't have these followers they won't get views on that medium. Not only that but CTR from YouTube videos is not an easy thing to achieve.

Oh... and if that YouTube channel doesn't have other content it can also look like the photographer has nothing else.

The there is the YouTube channel setup. More work for the busy photographer. Google+ integration, making sure they have a linked email account for managing notifications and so on.

All in all it will cost the photographer to promote the video through advertising it... and there are much better ROIs on other forms of advertising... like Facebook ads.

Then finally there is using one of your portfolio videos on Facebook...

The photographer is going to already have to have a large relevant audience if they want views. That means lots of engaged women. However... anyone who is already a fan of their page already likes the photographer so advertising to them is pretty pointless as far as new sales goes.

Besides a normal FB post (no boosting) will be lucky to hit 15% of their audience. Videos generally hit less as they don't tend to be as popular on mobile devices. Short vine type clips working much better anyway as people's attention spans are short.

So the photographer is really going to have to pay to promote their run of the mill, unspectacular, epileptic fit inducing video (those stobe like transitions will do that or make people feel queezy). But that doesn't make sense either as the ROI and effectiveness of single picture boosted promotions which are specifically targeted to each buyer persona type are massive more cost effective. Not only that they are easy and quick to create and change.

Also the photographer will still have to make the call to action, upload, set things up themselves, monitor the effectiveness of the video (changing it regularly based on where the drop-offs in viewing time are occurring) and regularly trying different calls to action and text based content along side the video. Much easier to use a single highly targeted image and content with A/B testing on content, calls to action and custom landing pages.

I can only assume you haven't really worked a great deal as a wedding photographer as you don't understand the inefficiencies your "product" will create for those who buy it nor what it would take to promote it, nor its overall effectiveness versus other forms of advertising.

Not only that but you don't seem to have the basics down with regards to marketing. To make claims about the marketing effectiveness of a video you really need to understand the mediums in which it will operate and how they are used by those in the industry. You need to understand how the end target viewer of the video behaves in the wedding market.

Granted you've had an idea for a product/service you think you can make easily and make money from. But you haven't really thought through whether the market you are selling to wants or needs that products, whether they'll pay for it. And most of all you haven't thought about how you can make it easy for them to use it and most importantly profit from it.

And your website and the "samples" show you don't really know how to market yourself. People don't tend to trust marketing claims made by those who can't markets themselves clearly.

If you're going to be serious about trying to sell your wares... you need to drastically rethink how you go about doing it.

A couple questions one should always ask themselves before bring a new product/service to market... one which I don't think you've properly posed to yourself.

Is there a reason no photographers are not doing this already? Why is that?


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
Post edited over 3 years ago by avim. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 04, 2016 16:12 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #35

So after all your claims against social media, why do you run a faebook page??

By the way if you didn't figure it out yet, I'm doing a market research on my product,
and a lot of great people from this forum are giving me useful advices that I'm going to implament soon!


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
     
Jan 04, 2016 16:37 |  #36

avim wrote in post #17844457 (external link)
So after all your claims against social media, why do you run a faebook page??

If you go back and read again you'll find I advocated advertising using images on Facebook. It was you videos that were the things that aren't well suited to it. My only form of paid advertising is using facebook ads (images with relevant text content, calls to action and specific landing pages).

Rather than spending your time trying to pick on my work you'd benefit from digesting what I and several others have stated in answer to your request for honest opinions. Getting overly defensive about a failing product/business model when you've asked for advice isn't going to get you anywhere.

Go away, take stock and remove your emotional thinking/responses from the equation and objectively look at what you actually have created, what it really is, what it means to the viewer and the photographer, and how you are trying to sell it. You're making the classic mistakes of being overly invested in an idea because you had it without having done the analysis to see whether the idea is actually a good one or not. Emotion has no place in rational business decision making.

Given the responses already it is clear that what you are selling is not clear to the vast majority of people out there. That my friend is one major problem. If you can't clearly explain and demonstrate what it is your selling why on earth would any buyer make the effort to try and figure it out? Buyers don't like unnecessary effort nor complication... you're making them bust their balls to try and get their head around what you are actually doing.

A summary of what your marketing currently says... the message it is really putting out at the moment.

I have an idea about a product / service... I think it will look like this, or this, or this... x 20 or so. You'll have to imagine what it might look like. You'll have to imagine how you might use it. Here are some claims as to what I think it will do "vague marketing claims with no substances".

You can buy this unknown product from me for $$$ (one that you don't know what you're buying, nor how you'll use it, nor what it looks like nor what any real tangible benefits will be). Oh and that is only after you've fought your way through incredibly confusing and ambiguous content on my website).

So please give me your money for this great "thing" because I think it is great.


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
     
Jan 04, 2016 16:45 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #37

Are you aware that you are a "bit" obsessed with this thread?
The all world knows that you don't like my product! OK Great!


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:03 as a reply to  @ avim's post |  #38

If you dropped your emotional attachment to your idea for even just a moment you'd realise I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Besides whilst you may be willing to be completely oblivious to the problems in your marketing / business model this thread is of benefit to others to see what are common mistakes for new business ventures. This thread is now as much about helping them not to make the avoidable mistakes you've made to date.

If you've never seen the TV program Dragon's Den or Shark Tank I'd recommend watching them. You're just getting the same kind of feedback as you'd get from them. No fluff and straight to the core of the matter.


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:25 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #39

You can go back to other posts at this thread to see that most of the comments were rational and productive and I treated them as well, however yours looked like you are just try to offend but it seems that You are changing your attitude and that's great!


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
Post edited over 3 years ago by memoriesoftomorrow. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:28 as a reply to  @ avim's post |  #40

I stand 100% behind everything I have said. The videos themselves are not good at all. Even if you had all the other issues about marketing the product sorted you'll still struggle to sell them or give them away.

You were the one that went off topic to talk about my work. Anyway I'm done. I don't see your idea succeeding at all even if you do sort your marketing and sales pitch out.


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:33 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #41

Give it more time you might be surprised...


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nukehed
Senior Member
550 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 39
Joined Jul 2010
Location: Northern Illinois
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:39 |  #42

avim wrote in post #17844553 (external link)
You can go back to other posts at this thread to see that most of the comments were rational and productive and I treated them as well, however yours looked like you are just try to offend but it seems that You are changing your attitude and that's great!

Dude,

memoriesoftomorrow has given THE most rational and logical and helpful post. I've learned more about marketing from his last three posts than I could ever learn by myself. Some people know their s^*t.
memoriesoftomorrow seems to be in that category.

Following this thread. I look forward to your upcoming video. I'll have the popcorn ready!


"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order."- Ed Howdershelt
GEAR LIST
My website (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
avim
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
72 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Nov 2015
     
Jan 04, 2016 17:56 as a reply to  @ Nukehed's post |  #43

First, I will update with the new video launch, hope you like it...
Regarding facebook and youtube I don't agree that you need a lot of effort to manage them and second a bit of knowledge about advertising on those platforms can get you a lot of targeted visitors for just $10 budget for one campaign and I'm talking about thousands of visitors!

That's all for today. bye


Avi Meshulam

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
Post edited over 3 years ago by memoriesoftomorrow.
     
Jan 04, 2016 18:00 |  #44

Sorry... just one thing to add. I didn't watch the slideshows with the music before... oh my...

Post 22... a cross between an under 5's TV program and funny home videos background music.

Post 29... late 80's disco backing track on an electronic keyboard.

For your sake do some market research as to what brides actually like and are influenced by (they are the target viewer after all).


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
memoriesoftomorrow
Goldmember
3,846 posts
Likes: 289
Joined Nov 2010
Post edited over 3 years ago by memoriesoftomorrow.
     
Jan 04, 2016 18:11 |  #45

avim wrote in post #17844595 (external link)
First, I will update with the new video launch, hope you like it...
Regarding facebook and youtube I don't agree that you need a lot of effort to manage them and second a bit of knowledge about advertising on those platforms can get you a lot of targeted visitors for just $10 budget for one campaign and I'm talking about thousands of visitors!

Rather than just your thoughts... give some metrics as to a successful portfolio slideshow project that has been run using your products.

How it was run? What the spend was? How it was promoted? What the target audience was? What the CTR was? What the enquiry rate was? What the video drop off was? What the sales / ROI was per unti of currency spent etc. What the client said (testimonial)?

What real world experience do you have to back up any of the claims you have from successful video promotional campaigns to brides?

You're not selling the whole puzzle as to how photographers can use and integrate your product... you're selling one small piece which requires the least effort on your behalf for a quick return. Meanwhile the buyer (the photographer) is the one who actually has to go away and do all the real work in using the video... and that is assuming it is fit for purpose in the first place.

What you think you are selling and what you are actually selling are not even close to being the same thing.


Peter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

8,018 views & 7 likes for this thread
I need your honest opinion!!
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Sacramento Taxi
905 guests, 283 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.