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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 18 Jan 2016 (Monday) 14:14
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Canon possible switch to Nikon

 
johnf3f
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Feb 06, 2016 18:23 as a reply to  @ post 17888515 |  #16

As I noted on another thread I have used the D810 and it is a fine camera. As you correctly state the ability to "pull detail out of shadows is amazing" - no arguments there! Having said that I have yet to pull shadows for wildlife photography - perhaps my cameras expose properly? Unfortunately one of the OP's requirements is wildlife. Whist a D810 is a stunner for landscape what would you suggest they use for wildlife? Surely not a D810 and a long Nikon lens!
Looking at your other posts I suspect that you shoot relatively static subjects and that you are very happy with your D810 - why wouldn't you be? If it suits your needs then is is a great camera - possibly one of the best. However if fast AF and responsiveness are required, and coupled with the lenses that will fit then DO NOT try the Canon equivalents! You may not be happy.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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Cormac
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Feb 06, 2016 18:32 |  #17

johnf3f wrote in post #17888552 (external link)
As I noted on another thread I have used the D810 and it is a fine camera. As you correctly state the ability to "pull detail out of shadows is amazing" - no arguments there! Having said that I have yet to pull shadows for wildlife photography - perhaps my cameras expose properly? Unfortunately one of the OP's requirements is wildlife. Whist a D810 is a stunner for landscape what would you suggest they use for wildlife? Surely not a D810 and a long Nikon lens!
Looking at your other posts I suspect that you shoot relatively static subjects and that you are very happy with your D810 - why wouldn't you be? If it suits your needs then is is a great camera - possibly one of the best. However if fast AF and responsiveness are required, and coupled with the lenses that will fit then DO NOT try the Canon equivalents! You may not be happy.

I understand there isn't much in the way of affordable options for wildlife/sports when it comes to nikon offerings. In regard to lenses anyway. Plus as far as I can tell from various vids people rave about the AF performance of the 7DII


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Somebloke
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Feb 06, 2016 19:00 |  #18

johnf3f wrote in post #17888552 (external link)
As I noted on another thread I have used the D810 and it is a fine camera. As you correctly state the ability to "pull detail out of shadows is amazing" - no arguments there! Having said that I have yet to pull shadows for wildlife photography - perhaps my cameras expose properly? Unfortunately one of the OP's requirements is wildlife. Whist a D810 is a stunner for landscape what would you suggest they use for wildlife? Surely not a D810 and a long Nikon lens!
Looking at your other posts I suspect that you shoot relatively static subjects and that you are very happy with your D810 - why wouldn't you be? If it suits your needs then is is a great camera - possibly one of the best. However if fast AF and responsiveness are required, and coupled with the lenses that will fit then DO NOT try the Canon equivalents! You may not be happy.

Why do these topics always have to degenerate to snide remarks such as 'perhaps my cameras expose properly'?

Mate the OP is after opinions and I'm offering mine on something that is simply a box full of wires and circuits, it's not personal.




  
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Cormac
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Feb 06, 2016 19:04 |  #19

Somebloke wrote in post #17888589 (external link)
Why do these topics always have to degenerate to snide remarks such as 'perhaps my cameras expose properly'?

Mate the OP is after opinions and I'm offering mine on something that is simply a box full of wires and circuits, it's not personal.

I'm looking for opinions from both nikon and canon users. Preferably from those who've at least used both! I wasn't trying to start a nikon vs canon war. Seems almost unavoidable however.


I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather.
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johnf3f
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Feb 06, 2016 19:44 as a reply to  @ Cormac's post |  #20

But don't forget that the Nikons generally have better sensors - it's all swings and roundabouts! Just try the options and go with what suits YOU best.
I am firmly convinced that Canon is a better system overall, however there are far better photographers then me who totally disagree! You have quite a bit of time (while you are saving) to make the decision that is best for you.
I only want you to explore the options before you spend your hard earned cash. I would point you towards Canon - but that is only because that system works better for me - it may well not be the case for you. So try them both before you decide.
Just my 2p.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Feb 06, 2016 20:12 |  #21

A year from now everything will be different, again.

Hell, the 80D is rumored to be announced at the end of the month.


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Cormac
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Feb 06, 2016 20:17 |  #22

johnf3f wrote in post #17888640 (external link)
But don't forget that the Nikons generally have better sensors - it's all swings and roundabouts! Just try the options and go with what suits YOU best.
I am firmly convinced that Canon is a better system overall, however there are far better photographers then me who totally disagree! You have quite a bit of time (while you are saving) to make the decision that is best for you.
I only want you to explore the options before you spend your hard earned cash. I would point you towards Canon - but that is only because that system works better for me - it may well not be the case for you. So try them both before you decide.
Just my 2p.

I am used to the canon menus, though I'm sure they are different on the higher end cameras. I played around with a 70D and the menu system, while different, felt very familiar and I was easily able to navigate around in it.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17888667 (external link)
A year from now everything will be different, again.

Hell, the 80D is rumored to be announced at the end of the month.

Right, plus the D500 will have been out for several months with tons of reviews to read and watch. Might even have fallen in price a couple hundred bucks.


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johnf3f
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Feb 06, 2016 20:20 |  #23

Somebloke wrote in post #17888589 (external link)
Why do these topics always have to degenerate to snide remarks such as 'perhaps my cameras expose properly'?

Mate the OP is after opinions and I'm offering mine on something that is simply a box full of wires and circuits, it's not personal.

The "Perhaps my cameras expose properly" point is simply because they do. I can't comment any further on that as they just do.

There was no snide comment intended and I apologise if my post gave that impression, it was not my intention.

As I stated in the quoted post it looks, to me, that your uses/requirements are somewhat different to the OP's needs/requirements. Hence I feel that your gear choices may not be ideal for them - though as you state they are great for you.

I hope there is no silly "Brand Loyalty" here - I certainly have none! Whilst I use Canon gear, I hate their marketing and pricing policies and don't get me started on their batteries!

There is nothing listed on your gear list so it is difficult to know what you use or have experience of. I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that your photography is centred around fairly static subjects and does not include longer lenses - am I right?

Anyway there was NO intention to have a go at you and I am sorry if you felt that was the case. I just didn't feel that you were making the best recommendations in this particular case.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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nqjudo
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Feb 06, 2016 20:55 |  #24

Hey Cormac. Guess who again? I think I may have chimed in with a similar post in one of your other threads so my apologies if I'm repeating myself. Anyway, I'm a Canon shooter but at one point I used the D700 and D810 exclusively for about 18 months. I can wax poetic about how one camera enjoys an advantage over the other but the importance of that means little because none of those advantages made me a better photographer. It may be cliché but if you are taking bad images with a recent Canon or Nikon it isn't the camera that is at fault. Nikon or Canon? You've got a 1st world problem on your hands. Just try them and go with the one you like. In the case of the Nikons had I kept one it actually would have been the D700. It just boiled down to ergonomics.

There is really only one thing I can give to Canon as a very big win and that is in service. Of course this probably varies regionally. Before Canon centralized service I could drive to a centre and get personal service. In all honesty since that centre closed service has been less than stellar but still heads and tails above Nikon. Nikon actually still has a walk in service centre in my city and I couldn't imagine dealing with a more incompetent staff or repair service in general. I also ran into an issue with Nikon service where they tried to exclude repairs from warranty for pretty strange reasons. In the case of Canon they've repaired grey market items free of charge. Not a deal breaker but something to consider.


No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. - Edward Steichen.

  
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power ­ shot
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Feb 06, 2016 22:38 |  #25

Cormac wrote in post #17888595 (external link)
I'm looking for opinions from both nikon and canon users. Preferably from those who've at least used both! I wasn't trying to start a nikon vs canon war. Seems almost unavoidable however.


what you want is someone who has OWNED both systems, not just used them, it is obvious that johnf3f does not know how to use a Nikon, he was handed one by someone he shoots with, he doesn't even know how it was setup but he has made his opinion about it based on that, that is not a knowledgeable decision

the D500 is going to smoke the 7dII and according to him what else you got to use on the canon side? 1dx? you'll be saving for years to get one

also, the D810 makes a fine wildlife camera, maybe the fps aren't there but the IQ has them beat, look around the net and flickr, outstanding wildlife and BIF images captured with the D810

add to that now the 200-500 and you will have an outstanding wildlife system, Canon has nothing to compare to it in that price range and reach and IQ is pretty much equal to the 100-400




  
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idkdc
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Feb 07, 2016 00:43 |  #26

power shot wrote in post #17888790 (external link)
what you want is someone who has OWNED both systems, not just used them, it is obvious that johnf3f does not know how to use a Nikon, he was handed one by someone he shoots with, he doesn't even know how it was setup but he has made his opinion about it based on that, that is not a knowledgeable decision

the D500 is going to smoke the 7dII and according to him what else you got to use on the canon side? 1dx? you'll be saving for years to get one

also, the D810 makes a fine wildlife camera, maybe the fps aren't there but the IQ has them beat, look around the net and flickr, outstanding wildlife and BIF images captured with the D810

add to that now the 200-500 and you will have an outstanding wildlife system, Canon has nothing to compare to it in that price range and reach and IQ is pretty much equal to the 100-400

I didn't read that far back, or I'm a bit tired to. Looks like in recent posts, johnf3f just voiced that both systems do well.

Power shot, you mostly lurking new account, I think you've tried to tear down someone else without saying you had any cross-system experience yourself, or at least you're talking in grapevine / netizen terms (look around flickr!).

I've owned a Nikon system and Canon one concurrently, only recently sold of the Nikon one. I will agree that if you expose correctly, there is little difference other than Nikon lenses and focus systems historically tend to acquire focus a little bit slower (still deliberately though) and require stopping down to f/3.2 or something like that for the focus to keep up (f/1.4 requires only the central 15 cross type points activated on the old CAM3500 autofocus systems like the D700/D800/D300). Other than that and customer service, it seems like they're neck and neck now if exposed correctly. Lke johnf3f, I would just advise you to try the different cameras out and see which fit your muscle memory better. The D500 looks like a great camera, but it is also considerably more than the 7DII. You can't go wrong with Canon's 100-400L IS II. The 200-500 looks great too, although I'm not sure if it's the equal of the 100-400 / Nikon 80-400 yet. The cost of a 100-400 + 7DII and D500 + 200-500 is about the same. Try them out.

And also base your decision on lens ecosystem and customer service in your area. A body is 3-5 years, the effects of lenses and customer service last many more years!


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
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nqjudo
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Feb 07, 2016 00:47 |  #27

power shot wrote in post #17888790 (external link)
what you want is someone who has OWNED both systems, not just used them, it is obvious that johnf3f does not know how to use a Nikon, he was handed one by someone he shoots with, he doesn't even know how it was setup but he has made his opinion about it based on that, that is not a knowledgeable decision

the D500 is going to smoke the 7dII and according to him what else you got to use on the canon side? 1dx? you'll be saving for years to get one

also, the D810 makes a fine wildlife camera, maybe the fps aren't there but the IQ has them beat, look around the net and flickr, outstanding wildlife and BIF images captured with the D810

add to that now the 200-500 and you will have an outstanding wildlife system, Canon has nothing to compare to it in that price range and reach and IQ is pretty much equal to the 100-400

Say what you want about johnf3f's experience but rest assured that there are a people out there who have switched systems who's experience eclipses his, mine and yours. There are tons of high profile photogs who have switched between Canon and Nikon (both ways) and I doubt any of them came to the decision by reading someone else's opinion on the Internet. Looking around the net and flickr is about as useful as trying to figure out how many snakes there are in a pound. There are millions upon millions of fantastic wildlife and BIF images shot with both systems before the D810 and 5D3 ever existed. What does it prove? The bottom line is that Nikon and Canon leapfrog each other regularly. The OP is not looking to purchase for several months. Who knows what Canon could announce in the interim? For the OP to make, as you say, a knowledgable decision the only sound advice one can offer is to wait till he is ready to purchase and gain first hand knowledge with each system. Take similarly specced cars. One has to be better than the rest but people still buy the others right? We can only say why a consumable suits us best. Speaking in absolutes about what system is best and why someone else should own it is something we can also do... but no one else should listen.

I still shoot Canon because I was born into the system. We can become dissatisfied with some of the best things available if we let ourselves get drawn down that path. Big corporations love that stuff. I don't bother looking at EXIF when I look at images because if it is a good image I don't care what lens or camera it came from. If I hold other people to that why should I consider myself any differently? I have a some nice bodies and some great glass. Am I satisfied? Even if it is not the latest and greatest? Overwhelmingly so.


No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. - Edward Steichen.

  
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Bob_A
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Feb 07, 2016 00:49 |  #28

johnf3f wrote in post #17888464 (external link)
Depends very much on your personal gear/needs!
If I went to Nikon (for example) I would loose a LOT of money! Even if I sold my most used lens at FULL retail price (impossible!) I would still have to find 3/4000 GBP to buy the Nikon version! Realistically I would have to find about £6500+ ($10,000) just to change that one lens. My 300 F2.8 would have to be replaced by the Nikon equivalent - no thanks I have used it! 100 Macro to Nikon - no problem the Nikon 105 is a very nice lens. Canon 24-70 F2.8 V2 to what?? Again Canon 16-35 F4 L IS ? The 14-24 is very nice but a lot more expensive. Then it's my 1DX to a D4S - err just no - I have used them. My 7D2 to a D7200? Maybe in a pinch.
So, for me, a change would involve spending silly money to get 2 equivalent lenses, 2 inferior lenses, one rather specialised lens that (for my uses) is no better and a lot more expensive (let's not even think about filters for the 14-24!).

Sorry to be a bit long winded but this is precisely the point I was getting at - the system is FAR more important than any individual camera body. For me Canon is better these days. However were my requirements a little different then Nikon may well serve me better. This is why I would like the OP to have a good long look at the alternatives as it can be VERY expensive to change. Though I am glad that it was cheap for you. Every system has it's pros and cons and Nikon and Canon offer the most complete/comprehensive systems. Which is better is down to one's personal requirements and is a decision that is (hopefully) only made once!

P.S. I agree with you on FF but long lenses (the OP wants to shoot wildlife) get very expensive - even more so in Nikon world.

Not having a go just giving a different perspective.


Wellll ... you're really exaggerating ... :)

There's not much difference between the Nikon 24-70 and the Canon 24-70 II (the Canon is marginally better), however the new Nikon 24-70 IS is marginally better than the Canon. I'll also take the Nikon 16-35 f/4 VR over the Canon, although, again, there's really not much difference between the two (both are really good lenses).

Below 200mm the one zoom lens that Canon has where Nikon has no equal is the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. And of course Canon has no equal to the Nikon 14-24.

Also, Nikon has not had a camera that competes with the 7D segment since the D300. The D500 will be the 7DII (or future 7DIII) competitor.


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idkdc
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Feb 07, 2016 00:57 |  #29

Bob_A wrote in post #17888852 (external link)
Wellll ... you're really exaggerating ... :)

There's not much difference between the Nikon 24-70 and the Canon 24-70 II (the Canon is marginally better), however the new Nikon 24-70 IS is marginally better than the Canon. I'll also take the Nikon 16-35 f/4 VR over the Canon, although, again, there's really not much difference between the two (both are really good lenses).

Below 200mm the one zoom lens that Canon has where Nikon has no equal is the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. And of course Canon has no equal to the Nikon 14-24.

Also, Nikon has not had a camera that competes with the 7D segment since the D300. The D500 will be the 7DII (or future 7DIII) competitor.

The one thing I hated about my Nikon lenses and the ones my newspaper checked out was that the rubber ribbing would come off every now and then. The 17-35mm f/2.8 and the 28-70mm f/2.8 and 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses. And the rubber on the back of my D700's that I had to keep getting replaced.

Canon's been on fire lately with qc and building their stuff like tanks. Check out Roger Cicala's teardown on the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L II and the 35mm f/1.4L II. They put supertele construction into the 35mm f/1.4L II!


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
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tim
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Feb 07, 2016 02:08 |  #30

I've owned both systems. Haven't had my Nikon rubber grips come off cameras or lenses, and I don't coddle them - they're simply tools to me, like a hammer to a builder. Though I don't hammer nails in with them, that would be stupid.


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