Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Sony Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Sony Cameras 
Thread started 03 Feb 2016 (Wednesday) 14:36
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Does Sony's success open the door for Canon?

 
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,838 posts
Likes: 251
Joined Oct 2014
     
Feb 07, 2016 21:20 |  #121

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17889757 (external link)
I forget the prices on the lenses new because I almost never buy lenses at full retail. I got my 27mm for $220, I find it very sharp wide open btw. I agree for a first time buyer the difference is big, but I'll believe it when I see it if Canon sticks to that pricing when they go serious into mirrorless (and I'll probably jump right on board with what they offer).

Yeah, we'll have to see. If the EOS M 11-22 and 22mm STM lenses and the EF-S STM DSLR lenses are any indicator, I predict they will go this route.

Not sure why you're arguing for entry level options, then saying that the repair services are a big deal for professionals...

Because those are two out of three markets. Entry-level, prosumer and pro. Entry-level funds pro r&d in the long run.

As for the adapter; again, not an issue in mine and most others experience. I had an a7R prior to my a7S and when I had that I didn't even have any native lenses... I never saw any issues with the adapters outside of internal reflections (which I fixed via some cheap flocking paper).

I'm not saying it's a dealbreaker, just that I would check copies if I were to go this route. Nothing wrong with that, right?


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
EverydayGetaway
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,419 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 3352
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Bowie, MD
     
Feb 07, 2016 21:34 |  #122

idkdc wrote in post #17889760 (external link)
Yeah, we'll have to see. If the EOS M 11-22 and 22mm STM lenses and the EF-S STM DSLR lenses are any indicator, I predict they will go this route.

Because those are two out of three markets. Entry-level, prosumer and pro. Entry-level funds pro r&d in the long run.

I'm not saying it's a dealbreaker, just that I would check copies if I were to go this route. Nothing wrong with that, right?

Fair enough. I just get tired of people making a big deal out of adapters... even when I shot on a 6D I primarily used adapted lenses, never had a real problem.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,838 posts
Likes: 251
Joined Oct 2014
     
Feb 07, 2016 21:53 |  #123

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17889768 (external link)
Fair enough. I just get tired of people making a big deal out of adapters... even when I shot on a 6D I primarily used adapted lenses, never had a real problem.

No worries. I just noticed your sig with gear list and that there's quite a few vintage lenses in there. Maybe that's why you're not noticing that much of a difference? I think it's mainly just a caveat with certain medium-format-resolution lenses like the Zeiss Otus and Canon TS-E's. I don't think I would notice any difference with vintage lenses that don't outresolve the adapter/sensor combination.


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,492 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 8156
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Post edited over 3 years ago by mystik610. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 07, 2016 22:10 |  #124

idkdc wrote in post #17889781 (external link)
No worries. I just noticed your sig with gear list and that there's quite a few vintage lenses in there. Maybe that's why you're not noticing that much of a difference? I think it's mainly just a caveat with certain medium-format-resolution lenses like the Zeiss Otus and Canon TS-E's. I don't think I would notice any difference with vintage lenses that don't outresolve the adapter/sensor combination.

Adapters have no impact to resolution. For MF lenses theyre just spacers. There are issues with internal reflections with cheap and older adapters, and tiltshift lenses were particularly subject to this..but that's about it. Most decent adapters are flocked now.

Regarding zeiss MF lenses....zeiss specifically marketed thay the milvus and otus lenses can be adapted to the a7 cameras. A native lens would simply have a spacer that is effectively a built in adapter anyway.

Zeiss does make native a7 lenses...loxia and batis..the latter being the only FF AF lenses they make.

There are actually big upsides to using the otus lenses on an a7 body vs a canon body. IBIS, focus peaking, and focus magnification allow you to get more out of them.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,838 posts
Likes: 251
Joined Oct 2014
     
Feb 07, 2016 22:22 |  #125

mystik610 wrote in post #17889800 (external link)
Adapters have no impact to resolution. There are issues with internal reflections with cheap and older adapters, and tiltshift lenses were particularly subject to this..but that's about it. Most decent adapters are flocked now.

Regarding zeiss MF lenses....zeiss specifically marketed thay the milvus and otus lenses can be adapted to the a7 cameras. A native lens would simply have a spacer that is effectively a built in adapter anyway.

Zeiss does make native a7 lenses...loxia and batis..the latter being the only FF AF lenses they make.

I love Zeiss, don't get me wrong. I think though that Zeiss and Sony need to figure out their supply logistics on the batis lenses. They're decent and extremely good (and qc'd well, which is said to be part of the supply problem) for their weight and size. I'm just pointing out that Zeiss has targetted Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts for stock purposes, which might reveal where they think demand is for the Otus/Milvus lenses as opposed to the Batii and Milvii.

http://blog.mingthein.​com …zeiss-lenses-for-sony-fe/ (external link)

final word: On adaptors
Much has been said both here and elsewhere in the past about adaptors degrading image quality. They do so not because there is any glass in the middle extraneous to the original optical design – there usually isn’t – but because you’re introducing two more mount surfaces to the equation, and possible skew and planarity issues in each case. And you can be sure that a $40 adaptor probably isn’t made to the same standards as the original mounts, nor is planarity checked to a high degree of tolerance. You could probably shim them yourself, but that’s a hassle and may introduce light leaks. I would stick to reputable brands – Novoflex and Metabones have proven reasonably consistent so far – but even then, you might want to test a few samples with the lens and body combination you intend to use to ensure there are no strange effects. I had one such problem with the 2.8/35 PC: it sang on the 50MP 5DSR, but was very soft on the A7RII – almost as though I was getting free tilt in addition to shift (or certainly exacerbated by the shift. A new adaptor cured that and results were more in line with what I saw from the Canon. The lens options are tremendous: but just because something can mount doesn’t always mean it should. MT


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Shadowblade
Cream of the Crop
5,805 posts
Gallery: 26 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 396
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Feb 07, 2016 22:34 |  #126

idkdc wrote in post #17889814 (external link)
I love Zeiss, don't get me wrong. I think though that Zeiss and Sony need to figure out their supply logistics on the batis lenses. They're decent and extremely good (and qc'd well, which is said to be part of the supply problem) for their weight and size. I'm just pointing out that Zeiss has targetted Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts for stock purposes, which might reveal where they think demand is for the Otus/Milvus lenses as opposed to the Batii and Milvii.

http://blog.mingthein.​com …zeiss-lenses-for-sony-fe/ (external link)


That equation may change when Sony brings out its full-size E-mount body.

The fact that they're now bringing out f/2.8 zooms the same size or larger as the Canon/Nikon versions tells me this will happen sooner rather than later.

You don't bring out a 1kg-plus 70-200 f/2.8 if you're targeting small size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,838 posts
Likes: 251
Joined Oct 2014
     
Feb 07, 2016 22:44 |  #127

Shadowblade wrote in post #17889827 (external link)
That equation may change when Sony brings out its full-size E-mount body.

The fact that they're now bringing out f/2.8 zooms the same size or larger as the Canon/Nikon versions tells me this will happen sooner rather than later.

You don't bring out a 1kg-plus 70-200 f/2.8 if you're targeting small size.

Good point. Hoping you're right on this.


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,492 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 8156
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
     
Feb 08, 2016 05:35 |  #128

idkdc wrote in post #17889814 (external link)
I love Zeiss, don't get me wrong. I think though that Zeiss and Sony need to figure out their supply logistics on the batis lenses. They're decent and extremely good (and qc'd well, which is said to be part of the supply problem) for their weight and size. I'm just pointing out that Zeiss has targetted Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts for stock purposes, which might reveal where they think demand is for the Otus/Milvus lenses as opposed to the Batii and Milvii.

http://blog.mingthein.​com …zeiss-lenses-for-sony-fe/ (external link)

Yeah because of the price that Zeiss lenses typically command and the fact that they're MF lenses, they're somewhat esoteric and Zeiss is not typically supporting a high level of demand. When you release a set of AF lenses priced around the $1k mark, you start attracting a set of consumer that they otherwise usually don't. Hand inspecting each lens off of the line works against them here. The demand for FE mount lenses is there, and from a production standpoint, stocking out when you have supply is leaving money on the table. Any sane producer would support the Batis lenses as best they can given the level of demand they're commanding. This is why in a recent open letter, Zeiss has indicated that they built out production facilities specifically to support the production of Batis lenses.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
2,838 posts
Likes: 251
Joined Oct 2014
     
Feb 08, 2016 09:04 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #129

Did not know that Zeiss has said this. Thanks informing me about that! I think the otus are even more esoteric for dslr users.


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,219 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2338
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Feb 08, 2016 09:25 |  #130

Hogloff wrote in post #17888071 (external link)
Looking at CIPA figures for 2015 we see: (data)
These are worldwide shipments tracked by CIPA. Looks like DSLR's are still heading down ( in fact Canon's guidance for 2016 is downnnnn ) and Mirrorless are heading up slightly in units sold...but majorly in dollars sold as we see the likes of Sony moving into the higher valued cameras.


Wilt wrote in post #17889405 (external link)
So folks turn a blind eye to the graph, which shows mirrorless to be essentiallly AT THE SAME level as in 2013, and this is a sign of real growth?!
Due to fall of dSLR sales, it might be a growth of PERCENTAGE of cameras sold, but unit volume is essentially flat since 2013 and a lot less than 2012 peak sales.


Hogloff wrote in post #17889414 (external link)
In today's environment where DSLR's have been dropping in big numbers for the last 5 years, staying even in units sold is pretty good.
Percentage wise, mirrorless has been climbing every year for the last 5 years.


Hogloff wrote in post #17889601 (external link)
Well in about 5 years the mirrorless market went from basically 0% of the interchangeable lens market to 25% and that market share has been increasing every year. With Canon predicting yet another 7% decline in DSLR sales in 2016...that market share will take another hit.

I bet Canin would love that 25% of market which is being eaten up by mirrorless. Reading their year end presentations, I don't get the feeling Canon is very happy and smug with the camera division. Who would be happy with continued year over year declines in sales.


JeffreyG wrote in post #17889643 (external link)
It's stalled. That's my point. 3.3M flat sales in an overall declining market of interchangeable lens cameras. That's why Canon and Nikon are not jumping in I suspect....

Forget the market share. Even forget the trends (do you like flat or falling? 'Cause there is no growth. You wanna invest a ton in no growth?). Look at the total numbers. My take has been growing optimism for mirrorless in Canon, but all these sales numbers actually make me pessimistic.

Sony's most recent quarter (ending Dec 2015) financial statement:

"Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S) Sales decreased 5.0% year-on-year (a 5% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 191.9 billion yen (1,599 million
U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to decreases in unit sales of video cameras and digital cameras*
reflecting a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models."

Within Imaging Products & Solutions, subtracting out Sony professional products (video), Revenue is down by -5.5% for fiscal quarter vs. same quarter year earlier.
Sony reports that their results reflect 'a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models.' ... they're selling fewer cheap compacts and more RX and a7-series cameras, so Income is up although Revenue is down.

Then, for sensors and camera modules,

"Device Sales decreased 12.6% year-on-year (a 16% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 249.9 billion yen (2,082
million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to a significant decrease in sales of image sensors, reflecting a decrease in demand for mobile products, and a significant decrease in battery business sales. This sales decrease was partially offset by an increase in sales of camera modules which were lower than originally
forecasted and the impact of foreign exchange rates. Sales to external customers decreased 7.5% year-on-year. "

The updated Sony forecast for Imaging Products & Solutions (cameras) shows expectations that Sales in the Fiscal Year ending March 31, 2016 will by down by -1.9% (vs. prior Fiscal Year), while Devices is expected to be up 1.4%.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,492 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 8156
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Post edited over 3 years ago by mystik610.
     
Feb 08, 2016 09:48 |  #131

Wilt wrote in post #17890180 (external link)
Sony's most recent quarter (ending Dec 2015) financial statement:

"Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S) Sales decreased 5.0% year-on-year (a 5% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 191.9 billion yen (1,599 million
U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to decreases in unit sales of video cameras and digital cameras*
reflecting a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models."

Within Imaging Products & Solutions, subtracting out Sony professional products (video), Revenue is down by -5.5% for fiscal quarter vs. same quarter year earlier.
Sony reports that their results reflect 'a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models.' ... they're selling fewer cheap compacts and more RX and a7-series cameras, so Income is up although Revenue is down.

Then, for sensors and camera modules,

"Device Sales decreased 12.6% year-on-year (a 16% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 249.9 billion yen (2,082
million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to a significant decrease in sales of image sensors, reflecting a decrease in demand for mobile products, and a significant decrease in battery business sales. This sales decrease was partially offset by an increase in sales of camera modules which were lower than originally
forecasted and the impact of foreign exchange rates. Sales to external customers decreased 7.5% year-on-year. "

The updated Sony forecast for Imaging Products & Solutions (cameras) shows expectations that Sales in the Fiscal Year ending March 31, 2016 will by down by -1.9% (vs. prior Fiscal Year), while Devices is expected to be up 1.4%.

The compact market is dead, and the smartphone market, which Sony bet heavily on with is sensor business, is stalling. Apple, Samsung, LG et al are struggling here too. Part of this is because the mobile market is maturing, and part of it is because the global economies (everyone other than the US) aren't doing too hot right now. This is why when we were looking at global mirrorless sales earlier, the more relevant metric are the 2015 sales in the US....sales of all products in international (from US perspective) markets are stalling.

The shining beacon is all of this is actually the a7 and RX cameras, as these higher margin products have proven to be successful. Sales/revenue is down, but income/profits are still up because these two product lines are doing very well. The shift towards a product mix with a heavier concentration of higher margin products (a7 and RX cameras) is working well for them, and I suspect that Sony will put forth even more effort in these product lines going forward because that's where the money (profit/income NOT sales/revenue) is.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,219 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2338
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 3 years ago by Wilt.
     
Feb 08, 2016 10:07 |  #132

mystik610 wrote in post #17890202 (external link)
The compact market is dead, and the smartphone market, which Sony bet heavily on with is sensor business, is stalling. Apple, Samsung, LG et al are struggling here too. Part of this is because the mobile market is maturing, and part of it is because the global economies (everyone other than the US) aren't doing too hot right now. This is why when we were looking at global mirrorless sales earlier, the more relevant metric are the 2015 sales in the US....sales of all products in international (from US perspective) markets are stalling..

Yet this statement seems to go counter to your apparent trend statement http://m43.co …mpus-panasonic-sony-fuji/ (external link) on Oct 15, 2015:

" I particularly like this quote from Michael Reichmann from Luminous Landscape who wrote on the Full Frame Myth:
What I find interesting, is that the latest statistics show that mirrorless systems are becoming very popular in Asia, followed by Europe. North America? Not so much. Indeed Americans and Canadians seem wedded to their large cameras and lenses in the same way as they are to their large vehicles.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,219 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2338
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 3 years ago by Wilt. (4 edits in all)
     
Feb 08, 2016 10:17 |  #133

Found some data including 2015, at last. Chart seems to reflect the fact that 'growth' in units is not the correct term for mirrorless, although the decline of other segments results in mirrorless not 'shrinking' but increasing its percentage share of the market. Yet Heino Hilbig reported at CES 2015 that between 2012 and 2014, even mirrorless unit volume fell 19%!

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/POTN%202013%20Post%20Mar1/mix_zpspspg13xj.jpg

As pointed out by someone earlier in the thread, a dominant position in the 'traditional' dSLR market can make better economic sense (better return on investment) that investing the same amount of money to win a segment of a far smaller market, especially if its growth (a 3% increase in unit volume) is not explosive.

You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,492 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 8156
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Post edited over 3 years ago by mystik610. (5 edits in all)
     
Feb 08, 2016 10:20 |  #134

Wilt wrote in post #17890224 (external link)
Yet this statement seems to go counter to your apparent trend statement http://m43.co …mpus-panasonic-sony-fuji/ (external link) on Oct 15, 2015:

" I particularly like this quote from Michael Reichmann from Luminous Landscape who wrote on the Full Frame Myth:
What I find interesting, is that the latest statistics show that mirrorless systems are becoming very popular in Asia, followed by Europe. North America? Not so much. Indeed Americans and Canadians seem wedded to their large cameras and lenses in the same way as they are to their large vehicles.

Michael Reichmann's remarks are from 2013....

You posted a link to a person's commentary on a report published by dpreview. In fact he posted that data to refute Michael Reichmann's remarks...

If you actually check the sources of the report, you'll see that the mirrorless growth is happening in North America.

From the source report:



http://www.dpreview.co​m …us-mirrorless-sales-surge (external link)

Mirrorless sales in the USA are rising, with sales values up 16.5% over the past year, says market researcher NPD Group
. Sony highlighted the figures while celebrating its own success: with the success of the a7 series helping it generate 66% more revenue from mirrorless sales over the last twelve months. NPD Group says DSLR sales values fell 15% over the same period. Sony also points out that the Consumer Electronics Association has recently chosen 'Mirrorless' (short for Mirrorless Interchangeble Lens Camera) as its approved term for the class of cameras, with ILC as an umbrella term for Mirrorless and DSLRs.

Looking at trade body CIPA's most recent shipment data to the Americas (CIPA's grouping that also includes South America and Canada), tells a similar story. Shipments of DSLRs in the twelve months to April 2015 fell 19% by volume and 9% by value, compared to the previous year, while mirrorless grew 36% by volume and 50% by value, over the same period.

Wilt wrote in post #17890240 (external link)
Found some data including 2015, at last. Chart seems to reflect the fact that 'growth' in units is not the correct term for mirrorless, although the decline of other segments results in mirrorless not 'shrinking' but increasing its percentage share of the market.

QUOTED IMAGE

As pointed out by someone earlier in the thread, a dominant position in the 'traditional' dSLR market can make better economic sense (better return on investment) that investing the same amount of money to win a segment of a far smaller market, especially if its growth is not explosive.


Again, that is global data. If you're going to quote multiple sources, keep the scope consistent.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 414
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Feb 08, 2016 10:51 |  #135
bannedPermanent ban

Wilt wrote in post #17890180 (external link)
Sony's most recent quarter (ending Dec 2015) financial statement:

"Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S) Sales decreased 5.0% year-on-year (a 5% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 191.9 billion yen (1,599 million
U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to decreases in unit sales of video cameras and digital cameras*
reflecting a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models."

Within Imaging Products & Solutions, subtracting out Sony professional products (video), Revenue is down by -5.5% for fiscal quarter vs. same quarter year earlier.
Sony reports that their results reflect 'a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value-added models.' ... they're selling fewer cheap compacts and more RX and a7-series cameras, so Income is up although Revenue is down.

Then, for sensors and camera modules,

"Device Sales decreased 12.6% year-on-year (a 16% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 249.9 billion yen (2,082
million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to a significant decrease in sales of image sensors, reflecting a decrease in demand for mobile products, and a significant decrease in battery business sales. This sales decrease was partially offset by an increase in sales of camera modules which were lower than originally
forecasted and the impact of foreign exchange rates. Sales to external customers decreased 7.5% year-on-year. "

The updated Sony forecast for Imaging Products & Solutions (cameras) shows expectations that Sales in the Fiscal Year ending March 31, 2016 will by down by -1.9% (vs. prior Fiscal Year), while Devices is expected to be up 1.4%.

The numbers you have for Sony include their P&S cameras which are in free fall for everyone manufacturer. The Canon figures I quoted were for DSLR only. If you include the P&S cameras...the Canon picture turns worse:

2015: - 21%
Projected 2016: -16%

Compared to Sony's numbers...Canon is much worse.

Sony is doing the right thing. Rather than spend anymore time on the low end P&S cameras...they are focusing on the higher end mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras where you get much more margin. The P&S market is dead.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

26,435 views & 59 likes for this thread
Does Sony's success open the door for Canon?
FORUMS Sony Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Sony Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Fernandoatorre
659 guests, 353 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.