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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 09 Feb 2016 (Tuesday) 21:25
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New to lighting, have some questions about which route to go

 
Z32
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Feb 09, 2016 21:25 |  #1

I tried searching and found some info, but thought I would post anyways for my specific needs. I own a Canon 6D and have a 430EXII. I will be shooting a small event that will have a stage and require lighting for group shots (6-10 people per group shot). I have doubts that my 1 hotshoe flash will be up to this task to get the results I desire. Will the 430EXII be enough to handle this on camera? Or should I consider getting a 2 light off-camera setup?

If I got a 2 light setup, what is the best way to go about this for someone new to lighting? I don't want to break the bank, but want good results. After some reading and exploring, I saw that I can use an ST-E2 to fire the 430EXII. So if I simply bought another 430EXII and an ST-E2, will the ST-E2 fire both flashes at the same time? Are there other alternate setup you can recommend for me? I think I read about wiring a 580EX to the camera, and then using that as a master to control the 430EXII slave. Is this a better option?

I would really appreciate some advice on which basic setup to get for a lighting beginner. Thanks for your time.




  
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MalVeauX
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Feb 09, 2016 21:32 |  #2

Heya,

If it's indoors, you can do it just fine with a speedlite.

If it's outside, then there's a bigger problem. You either need more lights, or a really big modifier (but that big modifier will be hard to evenly light with just one speedlite).

One thing to consider is that with a 6D, you can push ISO really high and that helps make that one speedlite very efficient.

Can you describe the event and stage that you will be doing 10 group shots? Size of place? Height of ceiling, etc?

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gonzogolf
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Feb 09, 2016 21:36 |  #3

You can do group shots with a single camera mounted flash, but it wont be very good. Adding a second flash will help but not much if you intend to use it bare. Before we go any further though, you do not want am st-e2. Thats old technology, and poor old tech at that. For what you would pay for an st-e2 you can buy radio triggers that are far more capable. You also dont want to use a second flash for a master for 2 reasons, one is that is has the same limitations of the st-e2 in that you must have line of sight between master and slave, and secondly you want 2 lights evenly spaced, not one on the camera and one off to the side.

Regardless of whether you use 1 or 2 lights you really need to get the light on a stand with a modifier, in this case a shoot through umbrella will be best. If you use two lights you can get an even spread across the group, but 1 light above the camera should work for a group of 6. If you do a group of 10 posing the, in two rows will work with one light as well.




  
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PhilF
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Post edited over 3 years ago by PhilF. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 09, 2016 22:07 |  #4

I use a single canon 430exii for events with a flashbender. It is more than adequate for a quick informal group picture. If you are commissioned to shoot a FORMAL group portrait ..... thats another ball game. BtW....do not afraid to dial up your ISO....your camera has the technology.


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Bassat
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Feb 09, 2016 22:31 |  #5

I use el-cheap-o stuff from Cowboy Studios. 6' lights stands - 2 for $29, 2 30" umbrellas for about $15 each, some mounting hardware and a way to control it is all you need. Another 430EX II, and some YN-622c controllers. Or a 580EX II (vI, or 550EX will do). You can get all that (used 430EX included) for under $250.




  
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RhodyPhotos
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Feb 09, 2016 22:46 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #6

I have the identical setup as the OP and coincidentally was searching for the same exact information. I previously owned a 60D and was able to power my slave 430ex2 using the on-camera flash. Since upgrading to the 6D, i have only been able to use the flash mounted on the camera hot-shoe.

Tom, any chance you can provide more details on what the bare minimum in terms of triggers I would need to achieve off-camera flash with 2 430Ex2?

thanks


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Phil ­ V
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Feb 09, 2016 23:42 |  #7

Just because no ones mentioned it.

It's not the time to invest in an ST E2. It's old tech that's unreliable. If you want control of off camera Canon speedlights, get a YN622c TX, and a 622 for each remote flash. Also, for a 2nd light, you can buy a Yongnuo ETTL flash as a 2nd light.


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gonzogolf
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Feb 10, 2016 00:02 |  #8

Phil V wrote in post #17892572 (external link)
Just because no ones mentioned it.

It's not the time to invest in an ST E2. It's old tech that's unreliable. If you want control of off camera Canon speedlights, get a YN622c TX, and a 622 for each remote flash. Also, for a 2nd light, you can buy a Yongnuo ETTL flash as a 2nd light.

I guess I'm no one.




  
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Bassat
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Feb 10, 2016 03:24 as a reply to  @ RhodyPhotos's post |  #9

On the 6D, I use a camera mounted YN-622c-TX. It is perfectly fine to use a YN-622c on-camera; they are designed to function as master when mounted on the camera. With the 622c on camera, you can have a camera-mounted flash. The -TX does not have a hotshoe to mount a flash. Then you will need a YN-622c to go with each remote flash.

An alternative is to buy a 550EX, 580EX, or 580EX II to mount on your 6D. Any of these units can act as a master, firing all remote units. No 'triggers' required.

Either of these methods is a bit better than using your old 60D as the flash master. For one thing, you get three firing groups with both these method. With the 622 system, you can fire a remote flash from 100'. The Canon flash-as-master system is OK indoors, it is unreliable at more than about 30' outdoors, and unreliable in bright daylight.

The 622 system is way better than the Canon flash-as-master system. If you are only doing one on-camera and one relatively close remote indoors, the 580EX II as master is just fine.




  
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Bassat
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Feb 10, 2016 03:30 |  #10

Phil V wrote in post #17892572 (external link)
Just because no ones mentioned it.

It's not the time to invest in an ST E2. It's old tech that's unreliable. If you want control of off camera Canon speedlights, get a YN622c TX, and a 622 for each remote flash. Also, for a 2nd light, you can buy a Yongnuo ETTL flash as a 2nd light.

Was the thread just too long to read? Hey, we're still on page 1.




  
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RhodyPhotos
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Post edited over 3 years ago by RhodyPhotos. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 10, 2016 06:10 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #11

Hi Tom,

Makes sense. So for my current rig, i would need a 622c tx and a 622c. Here is a followup question. If i get a yn-568-ex2 for my second light, would i need another 622c for it to talk to the 622c Tx?

Thanks a lot


CC always welcome.

  
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jsphoto
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Feb 10, 2016 06:28 |  #12

The best bang for the buck for starting out is the Yongnuo YN560-III speedlights with the YN560TX (C model in your case).

The speedlights have a radio receiver built in, and with the YN560TX on the camera, you can control all of the lights manually from the camera. $80 per flash, $30 for transmitter. $30 in Eneloop batteries. Get some cheap stands and umbrellas. You have a very inexpensive way to learn.

For TTL and Camera system capability flashes (Canon brand or Yongnuo or other compatible ones that are hundreds of dollars cheapr) the YN622 transmitter and receivers work really well. I was annoyed with the pre-flash for TTL when trying to use them for portraits (even in manual settings) and returned my YN622 and YN568EX speedlights, but this may be a Nikon system thing. I also love that I don't have to dangle the YN622 on the bottom of the flashes, because it is built to the flash.

With what is currently available and coming available, I would go with the Godox system. The X1 transmitter has the same control over the similar quality and cost speedlights. However, they have the AD600BM for $550, which is a battery powered 600 WS strobe that will over power outside. For smaller and lighter, but still multiple speedlight power, the AD360 strobe is nice. They are a great value for a system with the only downside of needing firmware updates as features get added. This is somewhat tedious and Windows only currently. People have done it fine with bootcamp.

I rarely use TTL. It doesn't always do what I want. Manual always does. The Godox AD600 has HSS which is great in overpowering ambient in daylight. If you want TTL, you can pay for the higher end AD600 for TTL.




  
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Z32
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Z32.
     
Feb 10, 2016 08:10 |  #13

Bassat wrote in post #17892509 (external link)
I use el-cheap-o stuff from Cowboy Studios. 6' lights stands - 2 for $29, 2 30" umbrellas for about $15 each, some mounting hardware and a way to control it is all you need. Another 430EX II, and some YN-622c controllers. Or a 580EX II (vI, or 550EX will do). You can get all that (used 430EX included) for under $250.

Phil V wrote in post #17892572 (external link)
Just because no ones mentioned it.

It's not the time to invest in an ST E2. It's old tech that's unreliable. If you want control of off camera Canon speedlights, get a YN622c TX, and a 622 for each remote flash. Also, for a 2nd light, you can buy a Yongnuo ETTL flash as a 2nd light.



I've read through the posts and I'm a little confused. I'm new to lighting so I'm not sure what all of the items do, so I could use a little education. It sounds like the info in these 2 quotes is what I want to do, but I could use a little more guidance. Most of all, I want to be sure I buy all the right items, so I'm linking to them below.

It sounds like I need a YN-622C-TX to control the flashes. Does this mount to the camera? It doesn't have the Canon 6D listed in the Amazon listing. Is that a problem?

http://www.amazon.com …-Controller/dp/B00LD0K7​7M (external link)

The above posts also mention '622's. I'm not sure what that is. I think it's this in the link below? Are these receivers that mount to the flashes? So are these receiving the signal from the YN-622C-TX controller?

http://www.amazon.com …fRID=0BBREVBSQT​9CF8R71VCF (external link)


Last, will these Cowboy Studio stands and umbrella work for this setup? Meaning, can I mount my 430EXII and my yet to be purchased YN flash to these stands? And while we're at it, are the lights in this kit poor quality? If I have a power source, should I not just get this kit and be done with it? Thoughts on a cheap setup like this?

http://www.amazon.com …-Background/dp/B003VBKS​WK (external link)


If I'm missing anything I need to complete the setup, please do let me know. I'm trying to read more about it, but as I read more, I'm only getting more confused. Thanks.




  
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gonzogolf
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Feb 10, 2016 08:52 |  #14

The yn622x system has two components. The transcievers which can serve as a transmitter or receiver, and the 622cTx which is a dedicated transmitter that controls the 622c units on the flash. Regardless you will need 1 unit on your camera (622c transciever or transmitter) and one transciever for each flash unit. The difference between using the transmitter versus the transceiver is the transmitter doesn't require you to access the cameras internal flash control menu, but instead has an LCD panel on the transmitter. You should be fine with either option.

As for the umbrella, pick something in the 42 or 43 inch range. The difference between cheap and expensive models tends to be build quality and durability rather than light quality. You will also need a bracket to mount on the stand to hold the umbrella.

The cowboy kit you linked to is for continuous lights not flash.




  
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FarmerTed1971
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Post edited over 3 years ago by FarmerTed1971. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 10, 2016 09:01 |  #15

My recommendation would be to go Yongnuo RT system. Get the commander and two of the 600RT's. For about $250 shipped (still need modifiers/stands) you'll have a killer setup.

http://www.ebay.com/ul​k/itm/201378196708 (external link)
Yongnuo YN600EX-RT Flash Speedlite + YN-E3-RT Transmitter Set for Canon Camera

Add one more speedlite for $312 shipped...
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2 X Yongnuo YN600EX-RT Flash + YN-E3-RT Radio Transmitter Set for Canon Camera


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