Canon 5dc/24-105mm f4 combo -vs- 50d/24-70mm f2.8----for portraits?

Hello All,

I'm trying to decide whether to keep my 5dc or my 50d for portrait type shots and would like some input please.


I love the image quality and shallow depth of field produced by the 5dc. It doesn't matter which combo camera/lens setup (f1.4 primes, f2.8 zooms) I've tried but the 5d always rendered better isolation (blur) than any similar field of view lens/range I tried on my 50d.


**However**

I prefer the range of a 24-70mm lens on an APSC (50d) which is equivalent to a 38-112mm on my 5d. The only thing similar to that range is of course a 24-105mm which is only f4.


So my question is this....

1) Does a 24-105mm f4 lens on the 5d render the same amount of isolation (blur) as a 24-70mm f2.8 mounted on an APSC (50d)? I've gotten conflicting information in that regards with some stating the larger sensor does create more isolation whereas others state it doesn't.

2) Otherwise, is there any newer APSC which offers as good of image quality as the 5dc for portraits? I just cannot equal the images produced with my 50d to that of my 5d.


Please refrain from stating I could carry two lenses and/or crop my 5dc images. That is what I'm trying to get away from. The question is specific.....


Thanks,
Ralph

What I would do is not necessarily what you would do. My choice would be the 5Dc and 24-105. The lens offers a wider range, and IS. The only advantage the 24-70 offers is f/2.8, which I would VERY seldom use in portraiture. When I shoot people, I want them in focus, so I am generally between f/4 and f/8, depending on lens and distance. I only use f/2.8, and faster, when I want the shutter speed up for moving targets.

Bassat wrote in post #17897727
What I would do is not necessarily what you would do. My choice would be the 5Dc and 24-105. The lens offers a wider range, and IS. The only advantage the 24-70 offers is f/2.8, which I would VERY seldom use in portraiture. When I shoot people, I want them in focus, so I am generally between f/4 and f/8, depending on lens and distance. I only use f/2.8, and faster, when I want the shutter speed up for moving targets.

Hello and thanks for the quick response. BTW, I changed my inquiry somewhat so you may want to re-read it.

How do you get any subject isolation with such apertures minus positioning them quite a distance from any objects? I'm often taking images indoors or in areas where the background is fairly close, so there is no way of getting any real subject isolation with an aperture above f2.8?

Will the 24-105mm f4 on the 5dc render greater isolation than the same lens on an APSC because of the larger sensor?

Thanks,
Ralph

Because you are using a longer lens on the ff body to get the same framing you will get approximately the same blur from the f4 lens from than the 2.8 lens on the crop body. But if isolation is your goal neither lens is the best.

As to your second question. Any DSLR will give you adequate image quality for portraiture. The magic is in the lens, not the body.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17897791
Because you are using a longer lens on the ff body to get the same framing you will get approximately the same blur from the f4 lens from than the 2.8 lens on the crop body. But if isolation is your goal neither lens is the best.

As to your second question. Any DSLR will give you adequate image quality for portraiture. The magic is in the lens, not the body.

Hey Gonzo,

I'd like to get some clarification please. Also, I'm not looking to get the type of isolation that you would get with an f1.4 prime lens. I typically have one of those for that "specific" purpose but this is a different inquiry.

I need a zoom lens for walk around purposes that can produce nice portrait "type" shots (good isolation and bokeh). An aperture of f2.8 on my Canon 50d has been adequate for this.

To clarify. Are you saying the 5dc/24-105mm combo set at f4 will equal the amount of isolation (background blur) that my 50d/24-70mm combo set at f2.8 will render with the same framing, lets say zoomed at 70mm on the full frame setup and zoomed at 44mm on the APSC setup? That would be the same framing given the crop factor....

Thanks,
Ralph

Ralph III wrote in post #17897822
Hey Gonzo,

I'd like to get some clarification please. Also, I'm not looking to get the type of isolation that you would get with an f1.4 prime lens. I typically have one of those for that "specific" purpose but this is a different inquiry.

I need a zoom lens for walk around purposes that can produce nice portrait "type" shots (good isolation and bokeh). An aperture of f2.8 on my Canon 50d has been adequate for this.

To clarify. Are you saying the 5dc/24-105mm combo set at f4 will equal the amount of isolation (background blur) that my 50d/24-70mm combo set at f2.8 will render with the same framing, lets say zoomed at 70mm on the full frame setup and zoomed at 44mm on the APSC setup? That would be the same framing given the crop factor....

Thanks,
Ralph

Essentially that's what I am saying. Go to www.dofmaster.com and run the dof scenarios to confirm. Keep in mind that bokeh is a quality, not a quantity and that is lens dependent.

I interpret you newly phrased question as:

What is the difference between the 50D/24-70 2.8 and the 5D/24-105 4, with regards to portraiture?

When shooting wide open with either setup, there will be next to no noticeable difference.
When shooting at f/8 with either setup, there will be next to no noticeable difference.

To see much of a difference at all, you will want to make a 30" x 45" print and look at it from 18" away. I believe the 5D/24-105 offers you more versatility. The IQ difference is most certainly negligible. At less than 11"x17", vanishingly so.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17897835
Essentially that's what I am saying. Go to www.dofmaster.com and run the dof scenarios to confirm. Keep in mind that bokeh is a quality, not a quantity and that is lens dependent.

Thanks for the input and correct on the Bokeh. I threw that in there because it could be relevant given the bokeh between the Canon 24-105mm f4 compared with the Canon or Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 lenses. I've owned a 24-105mm f4 before though and I think the bokeh was fine on it so probably not a consideration here.

Ralph

5dc over the 50d every day for portraits, almost regardless of lens choice. (Key is almost).

Why not look into the Tamron 28-75? Full frame lens, slightly longer so it is closer to 24-70 on crop, and gives you 2.8? If you need the extra sharpness that the Tamron won't give you, then stop it down to F4. It doesn't have IS, but since there is no IS on the 24-70 I am assuming that you don't need it.

Myboostedgst wrote in post #17897866
5dc over the 50d every day for portraits, almost regardless of lens choice. (Key is almost).

Why not look into the Tamron 28-75? Full frame lens, slightly longer so it is closer to 24-70 on crop, and gives you 2.8? If you need the extra sharpness that the Tamron won't give you, then stop it down to F4. It doesn't have IS, but since there is no IS on the 24-70 I am assuming that you don't need it.

Thanks Myboost.

Your first sentence answered my specific question.

I've owned the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and it's probably one of the best lenses you can get for the price; however, that doesn't answer my specific question here. My specific question is whether the Canon 24-105mm f4 will render the same type of isolation (blur) on my 5d that a f2.8 zoom lens will render on my 50d?

The answer seems to be yes. At this moment in time, I'm desiring to utilize only one lens/camera setup and the 24-105mm f4 on my 5d seems to be the best choice.

At some point I might decide to go back to a two lens setup; which would most likely be the Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 IS and a Canon 70-200mm f2.8. But at this time I really want to see if the 5d/24-105mm f4 will be satisfactory for me.

God Bless,
Ralph

Keep in mind the 5D is no longer supported by canon. I have the 40D (which equals the 50D in IQ) and I much prefer the 5D. But the 5D has its limitations, no dust shaker, no internal flash control menu, which means using certain ettl wireless triggers is limited unless you get a transmitter that subsumes those functions. So you might want to add a 5DII into your equation.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17898045
Keep in mind the 5D is no longer supported by canon. I have the 40D (which equals the 50D in IQ) and I much prefer the 5D. But the 5D has its limitations, no dust shaker, no internal flash control menu, which means using certain ettl wireless triggers is limited unless you get a transmitter that subsumes those functions. So you might want to add a 5DII into your equation.

The 6D is a better camera in every conceivable way, wrt portraiture.

Bassat wrote in post #17898049
The 6D is a better camera in every conceivable way, wrt portraiture.

And it cost more and isn't that much better.

Ralph III wrote in post #17898033
Thanks Myboost.

Your first sentence answered my specific question.

I've owned the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and it's probably one of the best lenses you can get for the price; however, that doesn't answer my specific question here. My specific question is whether the Canon 24-105mm f4 will render the same type of isolation (blur) on my 5d that a f2.8 zoom lens will render on my 50d?

The answer seems to be yes. At this moment in time, I'm desiring to utilize only one lens/camera setup and the 24-105mm f4 on my 5d seems to be the best choice.

At some point I might decide to go back to a two lens setup; which would most likely be the Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 IS and a Canon 70-200mm f2.8. But at this time I really want to see if the 5d/24-105mm f4 will be satisfactory for me.

God Bless,
Ralph

Your question actually is "will a FF camera with a F4 lens provide the same amount of "blur" as a crop camera with a 2.8 lens". It has nothing to do with the lenses. So you are 100% correct, they are effectively the same when shooting wide open and framing similar.

If the amount of blur that you get from F4 on a FF camera is enoguh, then by all means keep the 24-105L. If you want more, the Tamron will get you more blur for a cheaper cost. But as you mentioned, if the F4 is enough, then keep it.

Ralph III wrote in post #17898033
My specific question is whether the Canon 24-105mm f4 will render the same type of isolation (blur) on my 5d that a f2.8 zoom lens will render on my 50d?

The answer is basically yes. The reason is that you will tend to work with focal lengths about 60% longer on the FF camera to get the same working distance and framing.

For example, suppose you were going to take a picture at 70mm and f/2.8 using the 50D.

To take the same image using the 5D, you would stand in the same spot, shoot at 112mm (105 on the 24-105L is close enough to this) and select f/4.5. This is because 112mm, f/4.5 on FF gives the same DOF and AOV as 70mm and f/2.8 on a 1.6X format.