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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 06 Jan 2016 (Wednesday) 21:02
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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some

 
colincarter
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Feb 11, 2016 01:58 |  #661

Somebloke wrote in post #17882096 (external link)
With my d810 I can bring up photos that are nearly black and have next to no noise-the detail in the shadows is just remarkable....plus the detail when cropped...I'm very very happy

But surely it's better to get the shot right in the first place in camera.

If your lifting images from nearly black, you really messed up in the first place and you need to look at what your doing wrong.




  
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Feb 11, 2016 02:33 as a reply to  @ colincarter's post |  #662

Not if you have a high dynamic scene you are shooting, and are try to protect your highlights. You are certainly going to have shadows that you are going to be pulling up.


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elitejp
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Feb 11, 2016 04:22 |  #663

theres jus no reason not to want more dr if its available.


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Feb 11, 2016 10:01 |  #664

I have no real skin in the game since I'm still shooting a 5DII that I'm quite happy with. I shoot almost entirely landscape and rarely run into a problem with pulling up shadows when I need to. I do however, use ETTR. I've certainly seen the issue before, but only when I'm trying to shoot in far less than optimal conditions. I can certainly see where it might affect the wedding shooters havning shot a few of those myself.


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markd61
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Feb 20, 2016 15:42 as a reply to  @ elitejp's post |  #665

I agree. But I also have to say that in reviewing my images I see I tend to ETTR and really have no issues with shadow noise except in extreme cases. At that point it is an issue but only with photographers and myself.

Clients have never said a thing and they keep hiring me so I guess it isn't a thing with them.




  
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Feb 20, 2016 16:21 |  #666

I went out with my spotmeter a few weeks ago, and on a sunny day (not a reduced contrast overcast day) I had a somewhat hard time finding a scene with a DR of 13EV. It was pretty easy to find 11EV range. But a scene which all fit into a single lens FOV with 13EV range was not easy to find!

I can certainly appreciate getting rid of banding noise which might be seen in very low level areas. And I am all for progress to provide wider DR and higher ISO than we were hobbled with when shooting film. But I think it is reaching (I will admit I am using hyperbole here...) 'near hysteria' to need 6-digit ISOs for low light lower (EV-3) than our camera meters can read (EV0), and 13+EV of DR when that scene is hard to find.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 20, 2016 16:42 |  #667

Wilt wrote in post #17906009 (external link)
I went out with my spotmeter a few weeks ago, and on a sunny day (not a reduced contrast overcast day) I had a somewhat hard time finding a scene with a DR of 13EV. It was pretty easy to find 11EV range. But a scene which all fit into a single lens FOV with 13EV range was not easy to find!

It may be easier to find than you think. Just point the camera directly into the sun, with a nearby backlit subject. The subject, of course, will be completely in its own shadow, whereas the sun will be as bright an object as you will ever find.
To properly expose the sun and the subject (so that the subject is not a silhouette) is easily more than 13 stops.....and this type of scene can be found anywhere, any time the sun is out. It can be when the sun is low in the sky at dawn or dusk, or when it is high above at midday. It's actually really easy to find these scenes that have a huge range of DR.


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Feb 24, 2016 03:42 |  #668

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17906019 (external link)
It may be easier to find than you think. Just point the camera directly into the sun, with a nearby backlit subject. The subject, of course, will be completely in its own shadow, whereas the sun will be as bright an object as you will ever find.
To properly expose the sun and the subject (so that the subject is not a silhouette) is easily more than 13 stops.....and this type of scene can be found anywhere, any time the sun is out. It can be when the sun is low in the sky at dawn or dusk, or when it is high above at midday. It's actually really easy to find these scenes that have a huge range of DR.
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I can shoot similar scene with 6D and dual iso thanks to magic lantern, but honestly when i lift shadows too much it looks very unnatural., because even our eyes with all the brains processing powers cannot extract the details in heavy shadows next to sun. With more lift of shadows it looked overdone and unnatural.


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Feb 24, 2016 05:29 |  #669

Charlie wrote in post #17886185 (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/p5Xb​Mj  (external link) Viewing the Manhattan sunset (external link) by Charlie (external link), on Flickr

this shot just wouldnt be the same if I shot opposite to the sun :-P

I wouldn't say that was a particularly taxing shot. Even my baby 4/3 can manage similar. And I could/can crank the shadows a bit harder without IQ loss if I wanted.


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elitejp
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Feb 24, 2016 06:12 |  #670

then its agreed upon that its good to have a camera that can handle a wide dynamic range. On a side note the responses in the 1dxii thread are indicating that the increased dynamic range is highly welcomed


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Feb 24, 2016 07:39 |  #671

Having more head-room with DR is useful for outdoor portraiture too. I typically keep my subjects in the shade to keep any hard shadows from hitting their faces, but this creates strong contrast between the subject and the sky in the background....so I ETTR, which will typically leave my subject in a dark shadow, and manipulate the tone curves in post to get a good exposure on the background and the subject. A lesser sensor would have blown out the sky:

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And yes as mentioned earlier, anytime you have the sun in the frame, you're going to be well beyond 12 stops of DR. You wouldn't want to always lift shadows aggressively, but there are instances where you would, and I'd rather have that DR on tap than not.

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Feb 24, 2016 10:14 |  #672
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Maybe the aim is to rise the DR to the point where we can see the solar spots. :rolleyes:

When they come out with a camera that can shew me that AND the stars in the firmament in the same frame, I'll be really impressed; till then: meh.


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Feb 24, 2016 10:34 |  #673

.

Alveric wrote in post #17910911 (external link)
Maybe the aim is to rise the DR to the point where we can see the solar spots. :roll eyes:

That would be excellent! Then we could show the sun as a sphere with some character and detail, instead of just a round featureless blob. The problem is, if one exposes just for the sun itself, in order to try to show some detail, then nothing else in the frame is going to be any good at all. In fact, I don't know if there is any way to show the details in the sun without using neutral density filters.......and even then the filtering might not be enough.

One of the coolest things about photography is that it can show us things that our eyes cannot see. But when it comes to the sun, I don't think that today's cameras are capable of showing us a whole lot more than our own feeble eyes can see (except for the highly specialized imaging tools that scientists use to record/project the sun's details).

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Feb 24, 2016 10:40 |  #674

Alveric wrote in post #17910911 (external link)
Maybe the aim is to rise the DR to the point where we can see the solar spots. :rolleyes:

When they come out with a camera that can shew me that AND the stars in the firmament in the same frame, I'll be really impressed; till then: meh.

Or at least match the capabilities of our own eyes? Because when I look at a scene when the sun is out, I don't see black gobs in the areas the sun doesn't directly hit.....or if I'm sitting in the shade....I can tell the sky is actually blue and not a giant blanket of white.


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Feb 24, 2016 10:48 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #675

Your eyes don't have great DR. Your brain translation and continual control of your eyes produces the DR you think you see. The instantaneous view from the human eye has lower DR than today's cameras, but in conjunction with the continual changes of the eyes and control/deciphering by the brain, you might be able to exceed today's cameras by a little bit.


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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some
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