80D is here

Next time my daughter comes to visit I'll ask her if I can borrow her 18-135 STM to do testing.

John Sheehy wrote in post #17912742
That astounded me. The MFA on the 50D was so useful ... then it was removed in the 60D. There might actually be something to the notion that the 60D was not the successor to the 50D, but was the beginning of a new line with the old numbers, and that the 7D was the real successor to the 50D.

Considering Canon stated this when the 7D came out, it would seem reasonable. The 7D was announced, and the 50D was still being manufactured, and Canon stated that they were creating a new line of a fully featured more pro-oriented APS-C, and wasn't a replacement for the xxD line. They then downsized the 60D from the 50D and started to differentiate with ergonomic and feature changes to make sure there was a large enough gap between the 7D and xxD models. Effectively they split the xxD and that divergence means that the xxD had to have some changes to create a larger gap from the 7D.

Interestingly though they have started to shrink that gap each following model, by adding MFA, better AF systems and ISO performance, and even providing features not found on the 7D.

The 7d wasn't a direct descendent of the 50d either. I'm not being sarcastic, but today's rebels are 100x more sophisticates than what I was using in the 80s. We bicker over I so 6400 or 12800 nowadays. This stuff was almost impossible back in the day. Not too long ago either. To a degree we have become spoiled. "Arguing" over a 1/4 stop here and there.

Frodge wrote in post #17913577
The 7d wasn't a direct descendent of the 50d either. I'm not being sarcastic, but today's rebels are 100x more sophisticates than what I was using in the 80s. We bicker over I so 6400 or 12800 nowadays. This stuff was almost impossible back in the day. Not too long ago either. To a degree we have become spoiled. "Arguing" over a 1/4 stop here and there.

Every few months, with the release of new equipment from one manufacturer or another, the bar is raised and new standards are set. However, in most real world shooting, its all about the shooter not the equipment.

I agree mwsilver. I kind of miss using the old 35mm for one reason. They had a certain color to them and a creaminess in the backgrounds. Not talking about bokeh, just the capture of the file was different. I have pics from out west about 15 years ago and there is just something different about film. That being said, for most circumstances if you are pushing past 6400, maybe even lower, a flash becomes really useful. By using the flash, all the problems of high I so disappear.

Noise isn't just limited to high ISO. Noise can be present in the shadows of low-ISO images as well. This is why many photographers practice ETTR, because it maximizes your black exposure to reduce the need to push shadows in post. But the result is often lost highlight detail. With a lower noise floor you could expose for the highlights and push the shadows and still get clean results.

Flash is not always the solution for high ISO either. In many situations you can't use flash, either because it's not permitted or not reasonably possible.

But I think the point that Mark was trying to make is that it doesn't take the latest and greatest equipment to turn out good images, nor does the latest or greatest equipment guarantee good images. The photographer's skill is more important than the gear.

I agree.

I am interested in both the 70d as well as the 80d as an upgrade. I was having a hard time justifying the 80d until I read something in a 80d overview.

" In a nice upgrade over the 70D, Dual Pixel CMOS AF now works with all lenses (not just the recent ones)"

Is this true? Has anyone else read this? This really pushes my decision toward the 80d. I have a canon 100 mm macro that this feature on the 70d does not work with.

If you are in the market for either a 70D or 80D it's pretty much a no-brainer to go with the 80D. Even if it turns out there's no improvement in ISO, noise or DR, the new autofocus features are a clear win at the same MSRP as the 70D.

Unless you consider the refurbished 70d at $699 with the same 1 year warranty. . That's quite a price difference

Am I the only one excited about the 80D ability to focus at -3EV vs the 70D at -0.5EV?! The 80D overall working AF range is even better than the 6D!

BlakeC wrote in post #17914621
Am I the only one excited about the 80D ability to focus at -3EV vs the 70D at -0.5EV?! The 80D overall working AF range is even better than the 6D!

It's the defining feature I point out any time I'm talking about the 80D so far. The rest of the camera is not very exciting as a release. I could care less about the minor updates or near-same qualities/properties it has with other current, or slightly older cameras. All I care about is that it has an absolutely totally overhauled ability to finally AF at -3 EV sensitivity, a bit better than even the 6D in terms of AF point spread while doing it, and this is way better than the 70D's ability. Some resolution and slightly better ISO, sure, great. But it's that -3 EV AF that really makes it something special (for it's cost). Sure, the 7D2 does this already. Sure, you can get the 7D2 for $1k now in some instances. But in 2 years, when I can get an 80D for $699 at Canon Refurb, it will easily be one of the better all-rounder cameras out there considering all its abilities, and for low light and action, where a lot of cameras really fall down hard, the 80D's AF at -3 EV sensitivity will matter (add in good ISO and nice 7 FPS and you have a great little action camera, that can do video, and anything else). AF at F8 is also a big deal for some. And it's AF will be even more precise with F1.4 lenses too with it's dual cross point sensitivity for fast glass. The AF system is absolutely going to be a defining point (and one of Canon's main features in general).

Very best,

MalVeauX wrote in post #17914630
It's the defining feature I point out any time I'm talking about the 80D so far. The rest of the camera is not very exciting as a release. I could care less about the minor updates or near-same qualities/properties it has with other current, or slightly older cameras. All I care about is that it has an absolutely totally overhauled ability to finally AF at -3 EV sensitivity, a bit better than even the 6D in terms of AF point spread while doing it, and this is way better than the 70D's ability. Some resolution and slightly better ISO, sure, great. But it's that -3 EV AF that really makes it something special (for it's cost). Sure, the 7D2 does this already. Sure, you can get the 7D2 for $1k now in some instances. But in 2 years, when I can get an 80D for $699 at Canon Refurb, it will easily be one of the better all-rounder cameras out there considering all its abilities, and for low light and action, where a lot of cameras really fall down hard, the 80D's AF at -3 EV sensitivity will matter (add in good ISO and nice 7 FPS and you have a great little action camera, that can do video, and anything else). AF at F8 is also a big deal for some. And it's AF will be even more precise with F1.4 lenses too with it's dual cross point sensitivity for fast glass. The AF system is absolutely going to be a defining point (and one of Canon's main features in general).

Very best,

Don't you think it might be safer to wait with the platitudes until after the camera is actually released and available for review?

mwsilver wrote in post #17914685
Don't you think it might be safer to wait with the platitudes until after the camera is actually released and available for review?

Usually yes. But something that is a hard value, like the AF system that already exists in other cameras, but being put into the 80D, and the features mentioned above, are all just features of a current really great AF system that the 80D gets to partake in.

Very best,

mwsilver wrote in post #17914685
Don't you think it might be safer to wait with the platitudes until after the camera is actually released and available for review?

We ain't got time for those trivial matters after the release. We will be too busy whining about focus and exposure issues then. And that doesn't even get us started on the whining about pushing exposure 9 stops in PP and getting banding.