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Thread started 01 Feb 2016 (Monday) 01:01
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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

 
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idkdc
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Feb 26, 2016 09:27 |  #736

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17913704 (external link)
I look at it like "either I can give it to my kids when I am gone" or "I can enjoy it now while I am able to shoot".... ;)

Do not go gentle into that good night,
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Buy, buy the 1DX II to capture the dying light.


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Feb 26, 2016 09:33 |  #737

idkdc wrote in post #17913711 (external link)
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Buy, buy the 1DX II to capture the dying light.

I will add this line in recognition of the 14fps. :D

Take those fleeting moments to spray and pray.


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umphotography
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Feb 26, 2016 09:43 |  #738

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17913463 (external link)
i would wait for the 5d4 as i think the 1dxmk2 is a bit too large for wedding toggers?


Partially True to a point. The reason 90% went to 5D3's at this last update was because there was not enough of a difference in performance to justify the price difference BT the bodies and you could get 2 5D3's for the price if a 1Dx.....This was prior to the update in software where i understand the 1Dx saw some improvements.

5D3 for my use was good to about 8000 ISO and on a 1Dx i was OK at 12800. The AF systems were somewhat close for wedding and portrait needs but the 1Dx had clear advantages. Many, myself included, felt the 5D3 was good enough and opted to go 5D3.

This will be a really interesting update. I personally think that the 5D3 will update to be closer to the D750 performance and that both Canon and Nikon are going to separate the lines with the 1Dx2 and D5 updates with the impressive ISO and AF performances these cameras are going to provide

I might be wrong, but I dont think canon is going to to let the 5D4 get that close again. It really hurt 1Dx sales. I think were going to see it more like what Nikon does with a D5/D750 separation. I think the same will hold true for canon. I think there will be a significant separation factors. Might be dead wrong. Size is not so much a factor at this point. Weather sealing and ISO and AF performance is.

Either way, Im buying this for a 6-7 yr use cycle. I will wear out a 5D3 before 6-7 yrs. 1Dx2 build and shutter life is very appealing to me right now.


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Xyclopx
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Feb 26, 2016 09:59 |  #739

umphotography wrote in post #17913726 (external link)
I might be wrong, but I dont think canon is going to to let the 5D4 get that close again. It really hurt 1Dx sales. I think were going to see it more like what Nikon does with a D5/D750 separation. I think the same will hold true for canon. I think there will be a significant separation factors. Might be dead wrong. Size is not so much a factor at this point. Weather sealing and ISO and AF performance is.

5d3 really hurt 1dx sales... or really helped sales against Nikon?

in this case, the 1dx2 will come out first. so, if your hypothesis is true, and cause the 1dx2 would then set the bar, then the question would be how much can they cripple the 5d4 instead of how good can they make it. if they make the 5d4 too sucky, then people who were on the fence this whole time would jump ship.

also, if the 5d4 is not that much better than the 5d3, people wouldn't upgrade. i'm sure a major part of their sales is from upgrading, so they need to be significant in their improvements.


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Feb 26, 2016 10:13 as a reply to  @ Xyclopx's post |  #740

I doubt many "paid professionals" will be jumping any ship (via Nikon to Canon, or Canon to Nikon). They're glass-invested and what they've been shooting with have *worked* well-enough up until now. I don't think any Canon wedding photographer has ever said to him/herself, "D@mn, I lost that wedding gig because I was shooting with a lowly 5D3 instead of a D810." Or I doubt many clients have ever told a wedding photographer, "You shoot with a Canon? Sorry, I'm only interested in a Nikon-shooting photographer to capture my wedding. Next."


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Feb 26, 2016 10:15 |  #741

umphotography wrote in post #17913726 (external link)
I might be wrong, but I don't think canon is going to to let the 5D4 get that close again. It really hurt 1Dx sales. .

\

While I do understand the intent of what you are saying, if they are looking at the books at the individual camera line, someone decided not to buy one line but another.
When I hear this line of thinking I often wonder if Canon looks at a bigger picture. People bought 2 Canon cameras instead of one. That's a good problem for a company to have. Not only did they keep a customer, but that customer spent the same amount of money and purchased two items. For some reason I thought the profit margin was higher on the 5D series, but I admit I might have it backwards.


* this post is not directed at you, but the thought process of hurting one line of camera's sales when the customer still spent the same amount of money with the same company, and is just a pet peeve/soapbox of mine.


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Xyclopx
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Feb 26, 2016 10:33 |  #742

jwcdds wrote in post #17913778 (external link)
I doubt many "paid professionals" will be jumping any ship (via Nikon to Canon, or Canon to Nikon). They're glass-invested and what they've been shooting with have *worked* well-enough up until now. I don't think any Canon wedding photographer has ever said to him/herself, "D@mn, I lost that wedding gig because I was shooting with a lowly 5D3 instead of a D810." Or I doubt many clients have ever told a wedding photographer, "You shoot with a Canon? Sorry, I'm only interested in a Nikon-shooting photographer to capture my wedding. Next."

i'm no expert, but i think there are tons.......... in fact i often see fs ads for equipment from jumping ship, as stated in the ad, and it's quite often it's a wedding photographer. i personally have seen dozens of such ads (from pros) on this forum alone. this goes both ways--i see leaving and coming back to canon. "paid professionals" have a greater incentive to jump--the right equipment may mean more income.


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idkdc
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Feb 26, 2016 10:34 |  #743

Xyclopx wrote in post #17913798 (external link)
i'm no expert, but i think there are tons.......... in fact i often see fs ads for equipment from jumping ship, as stated in the ad, and it's quite often it's a wedding photographer. i personally have seen dozens of such ads (from pros) on this forum alone. this goes both ways--i see leaving and coming back to canon. "paid professionals" have a greater incentive to jump--the right equipment may mean more income.

Lots of professionals don't visit forums; they're too busy shooting. Canon reps I've talked with aren't too worried about forums at all, just whoever buys their product. We often act like our opinions matter here, but really, we're just talking to ourselves here.


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sploo
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Feb 26, 2016 10:57 |  #744

umphotography wrote in post #17913726 (external link)
I might be wrong, but I dont think canon is going to to let the 5D4 get that close again. It really hurt 1Dx sales. I think were going to see it more like what Nikon does with a D5/D750 separation. I think the same will hold true for canon. I think there will be a significant separation factors. Might be dead wrong. Size is not so much a factor at this point. Weather sealing and ISO and AF performance is.

The thing is... what are they going to leave out?

  • The 1Dx had iTR (which the 5D3 didn't), but the 5Ds and 7DII now have it
  • The 1Dx has exposure compensation in M mode with auto ISO (which the 5D3 didn't), but the 7DII (and I believe 80D) now have
  • The 1Dx II introduces AF at f/8 on all points, but the 80D has AF at f/8 on a lot of points too (i.e. not just the centre)
  • The number of overall AF points in the 1Dx II is the same as the 1Dx (and therefore 5D3), so on-paper no change there
  • The 1Dx II has dual pixel AF (which the 5D3 didn't), but so do many other Canon bodies

Other than the obvious (the frame rate won't be anywhere near 1D levels) I'm struggling to think what they could cut vs the 1Dx II without making a 5D4 arguably "worse" than existing (lower spec) bodies (and/or not being seen as a sufficient upgrade from the 5D3).

Before the 80D announcement I thought they might just leave AF at f/8 in the centre point, but even that now looks difficult to do.

(I've also never seen any data to confirm or deny the claim that the 5D3 hit 1Dx sales, and even if it did, that would be better than losing sales to the competition)

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Feb 26, 2016 12:34 |  #745

As long as the give the 1Dx II a few months the get all the guys that may get it who aren't necessarily the natural buyers (i.e. wedding photogs), there is no downside of releasing the 5D4 fully loaded, 3-6 months later, that has the much improved sensor, but is limited to 6-7 FPS. They will sell a crap load of these cameras to every 5D2 and 5D3 owner out there.

All the professional sports photogs need more than 6-7 fps. No wedding photog will not buy the camera because it doesn't to 8FPS - they just want a sensor that is 1 stop better, has better shadow recovery, can lock on in low light and has a decent silent mode.

If then then come out with a new 50L, a new 85L, a new 135L, and a stabilized 24-70 F2.8, they will have zero people leaving for Sony or Nikon and may actually have Sony people returning who want good ergonomics.

I think both the 1Dx II and 5D4 can be huge successes if the they have finally mostly caught up with Sony sensors.


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Feb 26, 2016 12:59 |  #746

Im hoping they make some significant improvements for the 5D4. I really Dont care what they do. I have been perfectly happy with the 5D3,s. But , im gonna love these improvements that the 1Dx2 offers. Frankly, you cant buy a bad camera right now for professional use. They are light years ahead of what we did just 4 yrs ago.

I Miss the build and the AF of the 1D series. I like my 5D3. Really missed the 1DMKIV when i sold off and went all 5D3 for our needs. At one point we ran 3 5D3 bodies so its not like I hate the 5D3. I dont. Its a great camera. So hoping the 5D4 sees significant changes. I do not see them crippling the 5D4 but I do see this technology thats in the D5 and 1Dx2 to remain in the top line bodies. D750 is a great camera. I have shot with it. ISO is awesome on the camera. Its Nikons answer to the 5D3 with some improvements over the 5D3.

I think Canon will get the 5D4 another step above the D750for features and AF and i think all the Mfgs will now makes changes to these bodies that their core buyers want and continue to lock them into their brands. I know everybody wants a 5D4 thats going to do what a 1Dx2 does for $2995.00.....I dont think its gonna happen. I think canon will up the ISO another 3/4 stop and get 12800 fairly usable on this next update and probably very similar the the current 1Dx1 as far as sensor performance. But its not going to be the 1Dx2 performance both in terms of ISO and AF features. Its not now with the current bodies and that will continue with this next update.


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Feb 26, 2016 14:50 |  #747

mwsilver wrote in post #17913671 (external link)
$6000 bucks for that? You must love your back yard! :-)

That was my thoughts also. A lot of money for birds on a limb. We need to get MedicineMan to Africa, Alaska or some other area worthy of 16 fps and fast focus.


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Feb 26, 2016 15:05 as a reply to  @ Xyclopx's post |  #748

I respect your opinion, though I disagree. Many/most of the FS-jumping ship threads I've seen are from landscape photogs that woefully wanted high MP, higher DR to help push their images further. Or simply fellow photo-"enthusiasts" that occasional sell a print here or there. This was the pre-5DS/SR days where canon had nothing above 22mp. (Canon stopped some bleeding from landscapers with the intro of 5DS/SR, but still lost the DR crowd to Sony/Nikon.)

I would say majority of the time, it's the bride-to-be that determines who the photographer will be. They will have looked through the portfolio for styling. I am generalizing a bit here but most women don't care how many megapixel, what brand, what model camera the photographer is shooting with. As long as the portfolio looks good (no chopped of limbs) and the photographer understands what they want during their special day, then the decision is made to hire or not. And they then expect the photos to look like those they saw in the portfolio. (contrast or the lack-of, high-key, low-key, filtered...)

I honestly haven't met anyone in the market for a wedding photographer that looked at a respectable wedding photographer's portfolio (without knowing what camera was used) and said, "Ah... see this set of photos... would have been much better with a Nikon." Or, "He/she must have shot this on a D810 because look at all that fine detail and dynamic range." They look for how people were posed, what kind of "fun" photos the groomsmen/bridesmaid took, artistic stuff that is dependent on the experience and talent of the actual person and not the gear. That's what sells a photographer's services.

In any case, for the time being, what little we have seen of the 1DX2 seems very promising. I would be very surprised if Canon holds back on the 5D4. Canon has never been shy to bring new tech to the non-flagship model. Just look at the 70D w/ dual pixel AF, which I think was the first to have dual-pixel (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.)

The bigger question (for another thread perhaps) is what is Canon going to do between the 5D4 vs. 5DS2/SR2 once the sensor tech gets shared across. When that happens... will any wedding photographer choose the 5D4 over the 5DS2? I would think more resolution is always a good thing to have for such line of work. Can always resize down, right? :D


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Feb 26, 2016 15:23 |  #749

sploo wrote in post #17913824 (external link)
(I've also never seen any data to confirm or deny the claim that the 5D3 hit 1Dx sales, and even if it did, that would be better than losing sales to the competition)

This, I believe, is the reason to believe that the 5D4 will be relatively full featured.


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Feb 26, 2016 15:26 |  #750

jwcdds wrote in post #17914054 (external link)
The bigger question (for another thread perhaps) is what is Canon going to do between the 5D4 vs. 5DS2/SR2 once the sensor tech gets shared across. When that happens... will any wedding photographer choose the 5D4 over the 5DS2? I would think more resolution is always a good thing to have for such line of work. Can always resize down, right? :D


Speaking as such a photog, I like the idea of owning 1 of each - as long as the camera's have identical, or nearly identical, layouts from a button perspective so that no thinking is required. There are certain types of pictures, that I will always want as many pixels as possible, but if the 5D4 gets 28 megapixels or so, that will do for the 80% - especially if the buffer issue exists as it does with the 5DSR. Bridal portraits and big family portraits that can get ordered as very large prints favours the 5DSR type camera.


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