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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 01 Feb 2016 (Monday) 01:01
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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

 
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idkdc
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Mar 02, 2016 08:23 |  #886

John Sheehy wrote in post #17920390 (external link)
For bandwidth purposes, a low sensor resolution works fastest, but higher resolution sensors would give the highest quality video if the bandwidth were available for it.

The color filters with a Bayer CFA are extremely problematic for binning, so the larger the source tile of original pixels for each output pixel, the less artifacts you'll get. If the tiles have even dimensions, you get color shifts because red and blue are only recorded in alternating lines, like this:

RGRG
GBGB
RGRG
GBGB

So how does the video on the 5dsr compare to a 4k sensor like on cinema eos?


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sploo
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Mar 02, 2016 11:10 |  #887

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17920287 (external link)
my point is that they released that 5ds which fills that 3500k mark .

So but making the 5ds the only 3500 camera and then a 6dmk2 that is a 5d4 in disguise would make sense.

do we really need two all rounders? ie a 6d and a 5d? Whats the point on the 5ds range then at the same price point as a 5d but with less features and just more mp?

If Canon were to move the 6D2 up to what would essentially be a 5D4 (and still somehow manage to maintain a 6D price) they'd be far better off badging it as a 5D due to the perception of quality/prestige. It would probably make the 5Ds look somewhat overpriced though (as its only "trick" would be high MP).

idkdc wrote in post #17920408 (external link)
So how does the video on the 5dsr compare to a 4k sensor like on cinema eos?

Probably too many variables in that one - because the 5Ds doesn't do 4k. Plus it matters as to how you then store/compress the video - arguably a heavily compressed poor MPEG implementation at 1080p would look worse than a very high bitrate codec at 720p. Storing uncompressed raw frames would be better still, but obviously data heavy.

Ideally you'd read the whole sensor and downsample all the data to produce your video frames - better quality and less moire; but it obviously takes a lot of processing power.


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idkdc
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Post edited over 3 years ago by idkdc. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 02, 2016 11:33 |  #888

sploo wrote in post #17920603 (external link)
Probably too many variables in that one - because the 5Ds doesn't do 4k. Plus it matters as to how you then store/compress the video - arguably a heavily compressed poor MPEG implementation at 1080p would look worse than a very high bitrate codec at 720p. Storing uncompressed raw frames would be better still, but obviously data heavy.

Ideally you'd read the whole sensor and downsample all the data to produce your video frames - better quality and less moire; but it obviously takes a lot of processing power.

Yeah, the older cinema EOS cameras downsample 1:2 from 4k to 1080p, I believe. I personally think the image through the cinema eos cameras even with internal codecs is much better than RAW video through magic lantern on my 5D3, so I think compression is only part of the image pipeline.


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Mar 02, 2016 17:02 |  #889

Really enjoying all the talk about every possible future OES body NOT ; Tell me more about the 1DXii ....example to confirm for fastest buffer leave out the CF card, that even writing jpg to the CF will slow down the write to the CFast, correct ?


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sploo
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Mar 02, 2016 17:41 |  #890

idkdc wrote in post #17920637 (external link)
...I personally think the image through the cinema eos cameras even with internal codecs is much better than RAW video through magic lantern on my 5D3....

Really? I have no experience with either, but surely a 14-bit uncompressed RAW frame will contain masses more detail (more dynamic range/fewer artefacts) than even the best MPEG/H.264/H.265 codec.

I assume ML is just cropping pixels from the centre of the 5D3 sensor for raw video, or is it using the whole sensor and binning pixels for a lower resolution raw?


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idkdc
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Mar 02, 2016 19:13 |  #891

sploo wrote in post #17921071 (external link)
Really? I have no experience with either, but surely a 14-bit uncompressed RAW frame will contain masses more detail (more dynamic range/fewer artefacts) than even the best MPEG/H.264/H.265 codec.

I assume ML is just cropping pixels from the centre of the 5D3 sensor for raw video, or is it using the whole sensor and binning pixels for a lower resolution raw?

In theory, it does, but in practice, it doesn't. I think there's something happening at the low level with the sensor and scaling. Both are using the entire frame, no cropping, if I recall correctly.


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bps
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Mar 02, 2016 20:35 |  #892

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #17921018 (external link)
Really enjoying all the talk about every possible future OES body NOT ; Tell me more about the 1DXii ....example to confirm for fastest buffer leave out the CF card, that even writing jpg to the CF will slow down the write to the CFast, correct ?

I'm with MedicineMan. Folks, please, let's get this conversation back on the Canon 1D X Mark II. There are so many other threads to discuss the ins and outs of other existing and future Canon bodies. But this thread is about the 1D X Mark II. Can we please keep it on topic? (Thanks!)

MedicineMan, I'll dig around tomorrow and see if I can find an answer to your question. It's a good question for sure.

Cheers,
Bryan


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Mar 02, 2016 21:23 as a reply to  @ bps's post |  #893

Thanks BPS.
I always hated pulling the SD card in the 5Diii when birding...just didn
t make any sense......my fear is it still won't make sense.


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Mar 02, 2016 21:32 |  #894

bps wrote in post #17921306 (external link)
I'm with MedicineMan. Folks, please, let's get this conversation back on the Canon 1D X Mark II. There are so many other threads to discuss the ins and outs of other existing and future Canon bodies. But this thread is about the 1D X Mark II. Can we please keep it on topic? (Thanks!)

I got my back-order emails today. I was thinking they forgot about me as they usually come first of the month.

But I'm still on the list! :)


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Mar 02, 2016 22:47 as a reply to  @ bps's post |  #895

There is really nothing to talk about at this point, there hasn't been any more photo leaks or news. Of course other topics and speculations will occur until there are more news or photo leaks.


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Mar 03, 2016 01:55 |  #896

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17921424 (external link)
There is really nothing to talk about at this point, there hasn't been any more photo leaks or news. Of course other topics and speculations will occur until there are more news or photo leaks.

And yet we're up to 60 pages and I bet it will be 80 or 90 at least before it is actually released. Well, as long as everyone is having fun.


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Mar 03, 2016 02:08 |  #897

Andy Rouse Exclusive: Hands-On with the Canon EOS 1D X Mark II

careful, this video contains a dirty 1dxmk2



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Mar 03, 2016 03:41 |  #898

idkdc wrote in post #17921203 (external link)
In theory, it does, but in practice, it doesn't. I think there's something happening at the low level with the sensor and scaling. Both are using the entire frame, no cropping, if I recall correctly.

AFAIK they realised there was raw sensor data available in a buffer they could access; hence the idea of saving it off as frames. I don't know if they're full res crops, or whether they're accessing what would effectively be an mRAW or sRAW image.


MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #17921353 (external link)
Thanks BPS.
I always hated pulling the SD card in the 5Diii when birding...just didnt make any sense......my fear is it still won't make sense.

Short answer: too early to know until someone does some tests.

The 5D3 suffered from a particular problem/design flaw; whereby the low level interface to CF and SD cards is similar, but the SD access mode they used was slow. As soon as the SD card was in use, the interface had to be switched to that slower transfer mode, which then meant that both cards were being used at a low speed.

There's no need to pull the SD card - you just need to configure the camera to only use the CF slot; then the interface will be used at full rate. Physically having the SD card present isn't a problem.

For the 1Dx2 (or other new cameras) it's a massive "it depends". As long as the interface has enough bandwidth for using two cards then you should see speed improvements when writing raw to one and jpeg to the other (a tiny bit like RAID0). Writing everything to both cards (RAID1) could slow things down a bit, but it depends on how they manage their buffers.

The CFast interface is different to the older CF cards (closer to SATA than PATA I believe), which might mean it's more likely you will need two different interface chips (or at least sufficient separation in the busses that the mode on one doesn't affect the other). For a 1D it would also be a rather more critical fail if using the CF card crippled the CFast interface, but stranger things have happened.


TeamSpeed wrote in post #17921424 (external link)
There is really nothing to talk about at this point, there hasn't been any more photo leaks or news. Of course other topics and speculations will occur until there are more news or photo leaks.

Indeed. That's why we're chewing the fat. Sorry ;-)a


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Mar 03, 2016 03:58 |  #899

Mark0159 wrote in post #17921559 (external link)
Andy Rouse Exclusive: Hands-On with the Canon EOS 1D X Mark II

careful, this video contains a dirty 1dxmk2


He's a bit WAHEEEEY for my reserved tastes, but there is a lot of interesting info in there - thanks for posting. Oddly what I particularly like is the sound of much more customisable menus - having a set of pages with just the things you need for different shooting scenarios is a really good idea. Other than that it just backs up the hope that we now have good DR in a Canon sensor.

I'm pretty certain his comment about TIFF grabs from 4K video is slightly misleading though; AFAIK the frames are lossy compressed MJPEG, so you can save it as TIFF (or anything else you want for that matter), but it's not going to be storing ~30 8MP lossless compressed frames a second.


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Mar 03, 2016 04:15 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #900

Sploo I think you are spot on.
It will be exactly like what we've been doing in mFT for quite a while...extracting/har​vesting
8mp stills from the 4k video sequence. Though for some reason Canon quotes something like 8.8 mp.
I've done it many times with the GH4 and GX8....for image quality it is always lacking but does offer
really unique perspectives the human eye can't catch.


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