Getting to 800mm and 1200mm - Canon 600 F4 vs Sigma 300-800

Looking for experiences and views on this topic ...

I currently shoot with the Canon 600 F4L IS MkII. I find that almost always I have the Canon 1.4x TCIII strapped to it, and have been contemplating the 2.0x TCIII as well. I shoot small-ish birds, using a 7D2 and a Wimberley and heavy Gitzo tripod setup.

Obviously as I am often at 800mm, I have been looking at native 800mm lenses instead.

I cannot afford the Canon 800 F5.6, but I have been thinking about the Sigma 300-800 F5.6.

My questioning is as follows:
- Will the Sigma 300-800 be as good as the Canon 600 + 1.4x TC combo? (f0r 800mm work).
- Will the Sigma 300-800 with 1.4x TC be as good or better than the Canon 600 + 2.0TC (for 1200mm).

The other issue is that I am not sure if the Sigma will still do AF when it has the TC attached - the 7D2 can AF at F8 (and will AF with the 2x TC attached to the 600) but I know from experience with my Sigma 500 F4.5 that Sigma disables AF when a TC is attached.

Note: I am not counting crop factor. Looking only at "pure" focal length.

I owned the sigma and found that the canon lens which I now own is 100% better when cropped. I have even hand held it (600mm)with 2xtc and got better shots than the sigma without. And my 600 is non is too!
Hope this helps. By the way I am using it for birds too.
Jhn

I don't own any of these lenses (yet) but from all my readings it is debatable you could do better than the 600/4 II + 1.4x III for 800mm+ work. Some will say that the 800 bare is sharper than the 600 II + TC, and some will say otherwise. Sigma's 800's (prime and zoom) will surely take a back seat to the Canon combinations. You may want to add a 2x III to your arsenal, but truthfully I think you might benefit more from pulling out all the stops and finding a way to get closer to your subjects. You certainly have the gear (the expensive part!). Have you looked much into setup photography?

FWIW I have a 1D4 and 500/4 IS with TC practically glued to it. I RARELY have enough reach, but as others can get by with similar setups I realize my real problem is finding a way to get close. So I am in similar shoes!

Don't know what your price range is, but I saw a canon 800mm5.6 for 6700.00 bucks. I think it was on FM. If I hadn't just started a new business it would be on my 7d right now!

tigger917 wrote in post #17932665
I owned the sigma and found that the canon lens which I now own is 100% better when cropped. I have even hand held it (600mm)with 2xtc and got better shots than the sigma without. And my 600 is non is too!
Hope this helps. By the way I am using it for birds too.
Jhn

Thanks. You mean cropping as in editing after the shoot.

birder_herper wrote in post #17932707
I don't own any of these lenses (yet) but from all my readings it is debatable you could do better than the 600/4 II + 1.4x III for 800mm+ work. Some will say that the 800 bare is sharper than the 600 II + TC, and some will say otherwise. Sigma's 800's (prime and zoom) will surely take a back seat to the Canon combinations. You may want to add a 2x III to your arsenal, but truthfully I think you might benefit more from pulling out all the stops and finding a way to get closer to your subjects. You certainly have the gear (the expensive part!). Have you looked much into setup photography?

FWIW I have a 1D4 and 500/4 IS with TC practically glued to it. I RARELY have enough reach, but as others can get by with similar setups I realize my real problem is finding a way to get close. So I am in similar shoes!

Yeah I'm still debating that option. With small birds and the way I shoot (typically from formed tracks) there is perhaps not a lot of scope for looking at hides and other things, but yes that is something I should consider.

daverator wrote in post #17932807
Don't know what your price range is, but I saw a canon 800mm5.6 for 6700.00 bucks. I think it was on FM. If I hadn't just started a new business it would be on my 7d right now!

I am based in Australia, but even so that is nearly twice the price of what a used 300-800 can be got for here in Australia (in AUD).

DionM wrote in post #17932616
Looking for experiences and views on this topic ...

I currently shoot with the Canon 600 F4L IS MkII. I find that almost always I have the Canon 1.4x TCIII strapped to it, and have been contemplating the 2.0x TCIII as well. I shoot small-ish birds, using a 7D2 and a Wimberley and heavy Gitzo tripod setup.

Obviously as I am often at 800mm, I have been looking at native 800mm lenses instead.

I cannot afford the Canon 800 F5.6, but I have been thinking about the Sigma 300-800 F5.6.

My questioning is as follows:
- Will the Sigma 300-800 be as good as the Canon 600 + 1.4x TC combo? (f0r 800mm work).
- Will the Sigma 300-800 with 1.4x TC be as good or better than the Canon 600 + 2.0TC (for 1200mm).

The other issue is that I am not sure if the Sigma will still do AF when it has the TC attached - the 7D2 can AF at F8 (and will AF with the 2x TC attached to the 600) but I know from experience with my Sigma 500 F4.5 that Sigma disables AF when a TC is attached.

Note: I am not counting crop factor. Looking only at "pure" focal length.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you really want the best lens for reach on small subjects, you already have it!
My most used lens is the Canon 800 F5.6 L IS and I love it, but I would swap it for your 600 Mk2 in a heartbeat! You can get stunning results with the 1.4 Mk3 extender (fully equal to the Canon 800 as a bare lens) - I can get OK results with the 1.4, you can get good results with the 2 x Mk3 - I can't even AF with mine!

Whilst the Sigma 300-800 is a great lens for the money it will not live with the Canon 600 Mk1 let alone the Canon 600 Mk2 or the 800.

If you are looking towards the "Holy Grail" of reach and image quality - then you have arrived. Don't waste you time looking for better as there isn't. I would certainly recommend that you investigate the Canon 2 x Mk3 extender. You will loose some IQ and AF will slow down a bit but in good light the results are far more than acceptable.

What you have is as good as it gets - enjoy!

I frequently use Canon's 2X MKIII on my 500L II with good results. I prefer the 1.4X for BIFs hand held as the AF is faster and not just limited to the center point.

Your 600 should perform equally.

I owned the SIGMA 300-800mm for some time, it IS an amazing optic!

However, as already stated by several replies, it is not what you are looking for.

1st, despite it's once ground breaking design, it is now over a decade old. Still no IS/OS, still no optics update. It's reign as one of the sharpest zooms ever made expired about 5-6 years ago.

Weight and lack of OS made me sell it and keep only my version 1 EF 500mm f/4L IS
The 500mm was a far more versatile lens, despite it's fixed focal length. I can hand hold it for excellent results, or monopod it for portability and save my back. None of this works well 9or at all) with the 300-800mm. It is SOLID tripod only.

It is now, RIDICULOUSLY overpriced! I got mine brand new for $2,100.00. I believe average street price was around $4,500.00 for many years.

That they are asking close to $8K for it now, after 13 plus years with no update, boggles the mind.

One good argument for it in it's favor TODAY vs. when I owned one, IQ and high ISO noise on modern bodies is so much better that shooting with one will be much better now than it was back on my then state of the art 1D MkII. Keeping the shutter speeds up there will help tame the FL sans OS. IF I could find one back in the $2K price range again, I'd like to try one with the 5D3/1D4/1Dx/or even 7D2. It would be a much better experience than the 1D2 could offer.

However, I'd not even for a second consider it over the 600mm MkII.

Thanks for the additional replies.

I wasn't looking to replace my 600 (never!) but more as a potential complement, for those times when I'm seeking reach beyond 800.

Anyway it sounds like it is not going to be a substantial improvement over the 600 with a 2x TC, so I will go looking at that avenue.

Im not 100% sure about, but there might be two versions of Sigma 300-800. Older and newer (with better coatings/optics).

Same thing with Sigma 500 4.5 and Sigma 300 2.8.. I have tested old and new Sigma 300 2.8 and difference in IQ was huge!

Owl_79 wrote in post #17936013
Im not 100% sure about, but there might be two versions of Sigma 300-800. Older and newer (with better coatings/optics).

Same thing with Sigma 500 4.5 and Sigma 300 2.8.. I have tested old and new Sigma 300 2.8 and difference in IQ was huge!

The "newer" version of the SIGMA 300-800mm indeed had newer coatings. This was the whole "DG" addition of the mid 2000's where the exact same lens was being re introduced as "new" with a few more letters of the alphabet as the major change. It is exactly how I was able to get a brand new in the box 300-800mm for $2,100.00

Having shot a lot with SIGMA lenses of DG and Pre-DG, I can tell you the "digitally optimized coatings" of the "DG" moniker offered little to no perceivable improvement in image quality, and no improvement of any other function when all else was equal,. Perhaps under certain lighting conditions the coatings would show more effect?