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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 26 Feb 2016 (Friday) 07:27
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New Body for Hockey (very high ISO)

 
neacail
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Mar 05, 2016 20:07 |  #16

1/500 sec; f/5.6; ISO 12800

The image is pushing overexposed . . . I could have shot it at 1/640 sec, which is where I like to be.


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I'm not excited about the amount of detail lost in the face, but I am thrilled with the DOF. This player (who is my son . . . which is the only reason I can post a photo of him) was across the rink widthwise from me. I was in the penalty box (which is not glassed in at this rink). He is completely in focus. When players were a little closer to me than he is here there is great detail in their faces.

It was a pretty slow practice tonight. I've scanned through the 500+ images I shot, and I can't find a single image where my subject is OOF. I'm sure there are a few OOF shots in there somewhere, but it looks like I was able to get my focus settings dialled in just about perfectly before I ever got to the rink.

I shot from f/2.8 (my usual) to f/5.6 . . . and focus is really good throughout the spectrum. Being able to hit 5.6 means I can play with my extender.

I have a tournament to shoot from Monday to Thursday this next week, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what this thing can do.

I am filling the buffer often (which I almost never did on the 70D), but culling is going be so much easier I can live with that for now. :)

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Mar 05, 2016 21:41 |  #17
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You might pull the exposure in your RAW processor a few decimal values. If you're gonna print it, though, I'd pull it by several decimals.


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Mar 06, 2016 07:17 |  #18

Alveric wrote in post #17925003 (external link)
You might pull the exposure in your RAW processor a few decimal values. If you're gonna print it, though, I'd pull it by several decimals.

I won't be printing these. I only processed a couple of them to see what the raw files and the noise was like. I won't be delivering any of these photographs to anyone. 1/3 of a stop was about right for exposure reduction. I don't normally shoot practices, I just wanted to get comfy with the camera.

The 5D III screen isn't as bright as the 70D, even though I turned the brightness up all the way. That caused me to doubt my exposure settings, and I pushed the histogram further to the right than I normally do. :oops:

I did find some poorly focussed photos, but it is a very small percentage.

This is 1/3 stop down, which is about right. I could have shot 1/640 sec.


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Mar 07, 2016 13:52 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #19

I apologize for all the different actions. I always tried to make a low/medium/high action for each camera, but then for other post processing needs, I made other actions in there, and probably should have stored those into a different file. In any case, you can try different ones to see which provides the best value for whatever you are shooting.

My concepts are based on cleaning up each color first, then do a final full NR on the combined RGB channel. Lots of time was spent back with the 7D, and I leveraged what I learned with that onto the other bodies like 1D4, 5D3 and 7D2.

I am glad you like it. I have been to Calgary a couple of times, very beautiful city, reminds me of some of the growing towns I had lived in here in the states. Seeing some of the American muscle cars rumbling through the streets might have helped a little. :)

You definitely have a great vantage point to take some wonderful shots. I am always shooting through glass, so I have to have my lens right on the glass and hope somebody isn't checked right in the area I am standing. I am usually shooting adults, so that would really hurt, should that happen.


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neacail
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Mar 07, 2016 14:23 |  #20

Teamspeed . . . there is no need to apologize for all of the different actions. :) An impressive amount of work and care has gone into it. Going through all of the different actions is a great learning experience, too.

We love our Detroit heavy metal in Calgary. :) I think we may love it in all of Canada. My neighbour rumbled passed in his '70 Hemi Charger about a half hour ago. The weather here this winter has been phenomenal.

The downside to my vantage point is that it comes as a result of my official volunteer position within the association. I have to adhere to a set of rules that the folks in the stands don't. I have to worry about media releases and FOIP forms. I can't post images of other people's children on the Internet. The only player I can post photos of is the one I gave birth to, and he's seldom the only child in the photo. So, I get great photos, but I can't share them with anyone but the association.

Yes. That would really hurt. You could always invent a really great story about how you got the black eye, though. ;)


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Mar 09, 2016 08:15 |  #21

Is your conclusion that your 5D III > 6D > 70D? (for hockey)


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neacail
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Mar 09, 2016 09:01 |  #22

rholly wrote in post #17929105 (external link)
Is your conclusion that your 5D III > 6D > 70D?

I no longer have my 70D, as I've passed it onto one of my boys. I've decided to dump crop bodies all together. But, that has been my plan for years. That is probably mostly because I shot 35mm film for two decades before going digital. I only bought the 70D as I had been advised that crop bodies were better for sports.

I'm still learning the 5D III. I've shot 5000+ images with it so far (I'm shooting a hockey tournament right now). There are some things I'm still trying to dial in, but I'm impressed.

Does you query relate directly to ice hockey? Or, is it more general than that?

The 5D III is important to accomplishing my next set of goals as far as shooting ice hockey goes. Goals, of course, are a very personal. We each develop our own as we progress through life. :)

For ice hockey, I would at this point in time, rate the cameras 5D III>70D>6D. Yes, the photos from the 6D are better than the 70D, but the 70D has a better focus system and has less shutter lag and higher FPS in burst mode.

My 5D III is now my "everything but astro and landscape" body. My manual focus Zeiss 21mm Distagon now lives on my 6D.

The 5D III is the better all-around body, but the 6D has a significant edge (less long exposure, low light, noise) for astrophotography. The 6D is a smaller and much lighter body than the 5D III, so that makes it great for trekking of any sort. And, the 6D's IQ is great. The single cross type AF point isn't a problem with narrow aperture landscapes, wide field astrophotography, or with manual focus lenses. The 6D also focuses very, very well in low light situation. The thing will practically focus in the dark (with the centre point).

The weight of the 5D III with a battery grip has been a difficult adjustment for me. I've pulled a muscle in my neck, my shoulders are killing me, and I'm going through ibuprofen like crazy. After shooting one practice and one game handheld, I've had to pull out my monopod. I HATE using a monopod. I think I'm actually going to have to put together a weightlifting plan with dumping the monopod in mind. The weight increase has been very significant and could become a real problem.

The 5D III and 6D are very different camera bodies. If I had to get rid of one, I'd get rid of the 6D, but I wouldn't be happy about it. I've already gotten rid of the 70D. So, with that in mind, if I had to generally rate the cameras, it would be 5D III > 6D > 70D. But, that really is subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt.


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Mar 09, 2016 09:02 |  #23

Just remember that the 7D2 is one of the best Canon bodies for astro at this time. Not to derail your "getting out of crop" efforts at all, just something for others to consider if they shoot astro as well.


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Mar 10, 2016 05:52 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #24

Thanks for your summary and sharing with others. We always seem to have discussion on this site about the need/want to upgrade a body and your perspective helps because you've used all three.

Russell


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Mar 10, 2016 12:09 |  #25

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17929154 (external link)
Just remember that the 7D2 is one of the best Canon bodies for astro at this time. Not to derail your "getting out of crop" efforts at all, just something for others to consider if they shoot astro as well.

The data on the 7D2 sensor does look very good. Thank you for pointing that out.

rholly wrote in post #17930234 (external link)
Thanks for your summary and sharing with others. We always seem to have discussion on this site about the need/want to upgrade a body and your perspective helps because you've used all three.

Russell

The real test of my equipment is tonight. I just got tonight's schedule, and I'm shooting a couple of semi-final games in a different arena from the rest of the tournament. It is at this fancy private sports school (40K a year tuition) where they have TWO sheets of NHL size ice! I hope it is lit well. I've never been in the arena before. I didn't even know it existed until about a 1/2 hour ago.

I am either going to have my arse handed to me, or things are going to work out the way I hope. I'm kind of expecting the former.

I have to hit f/5.6 so I can use my 2x extender. With the subjects being as small as they are (seven and eight year olds), I am not going to be able to fill the frame well enough on big ice with pint sized players at 200mm.

This will be the first time in three season that I've shot on ice this size, so it isn't a typical shooting scenario for me. I won't make any gear changes as a result, but if it goes poorly I may rent better glass if I get the opportunity to shoot big ice games again in the future.


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Mar 11, 2016 07:20 |  #26

It worked. I used my extender for the last two periods of the game.

I was able to hit f/5.6 with the 5D III and use my 70-200 2.8 II with my 2X III extender. My photos are underexposed by about a 1/3 of a stop, and some the photos with the extender look a little bit hazy. Focus didn't seem to suffer at all with the extender. It did really well in aiservo with BBAF. It stayed locked on, and I really tested that capacity.

So, I would say the 5 III is a success as for as my ice hockey work goes. It has helped me accomplish the two goals I had: being able to hit f/5.6 and improved focus. :)

I'd like to see less noise at 12,800. Hopefully the 5D IV will serve that up.


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Mar 11, 2016 08:16 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #27

Nice!

To help with your final results, perhaps this is different from what you are doing now, and will provide cleaner results.

1) Edit the raw in DPP, take contrast down 1 notch from center
2) Push sharpening down to 0 or 1 on the slider
3) Go to the 2nd tab, and bring up sharpness there to +10
4) Make sure lighting optimizer is checked off.
5) Take the lum slider down to about 1/2 of what it is.

Export to JPG and try my actions on it. This may not work, different bodies react differently to this, but I am curious. If you have a 12800 CR2 you can share according to your contract, I can even take a look at it for you. You should be able to get very clean 12800 from the 5D3 after post processing.


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Mar 11, 2016 08:54 |  #28

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17931523 (external link)
Nice!

To help with your final results, perhaps this is different from what you are doing now, and will provide cleaner results.

1) Edit the raw in DPP, take contrast down 1 notch from center
2) Push sharpening down to 0 or 1 on the slider
3) Go to the 2nd tab, and bring up sharpness there to +10
4) Make sure lighting optimizer is checked off.
5) Take the lum slider down to about 1/2 of what it is.

Export to JPG and try my actions on it. This may not work, different bodies react differently to this, but I am curious. If you have a 12800 CR2 you can share according to your contract, I can even take a look at it for you. You should be able to get very clean 12800 from the 5D3 after post processing.

I'll send you a Dropbox link later today with an image or two, my sidecar files, and my colour profile.

I can privately share images for specific consultation purposes.


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Mar 11, 2016 09:14 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #29

Awesome, I am very busy, so I can't promise when I can look at them. I have 2 NBA D-League games, ISSMA, and a church connection group over the next couple of days, and I have to start taxes here shortly (yuck).


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Mar 13, 2016 16:23 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #30

Is the TeamSpeed available in LR preset?


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New Body for Hockey (very high ISO)
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