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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Birds 
Thread started 18 Mar 2016 (Friday) 05:54
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Whooping Cranes-

 
ardeekay
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Mar 18, 2016 05:54 |  #1

Due to a variety of reasons, I was down to my last chance to take the boat trip up to the Aransas Wildlife Refuge to see these magnificent birds. Unfortunately, it was very overcast, borderline foggy even. Given we were never closer than 40-50 yards from them, fast SS was necessary and therefore very noisy images. Did the best I could and hey, they're Whoopers! Plus there were some interesting opportunities. So, for what it's worth.

I'm so grand!

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1582/25250349513_05a96363a0_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/EthD​cF  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7009-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

WIF

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1566/25784153421_4e8b95a153_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Fhsw​vk  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7016-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

Pair landing

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1611/25578541670_ae44846ffe_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/EYhH​i9  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7164-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

Snake didn't stand a chance!

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/25250484833_7b2a741303_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Etik​qM  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7103-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

For size comparison-Great Egret on left-

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/25578571050_150d8d7b8e_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/EYhS​2G  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7214-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

Mom(probably) and first year chick in front. He has almost lost all his brown shading. In a couple of weeks, he'll probably be on his own to make the flight up to Canada, joining other yearlings.

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1544/25758380612_ee5265a67d_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Ffbr​9y  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7232-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

Sorry about the poor IQ. Couple of 20/20 hindsight thoughts/questions-
Wonder if I had shot in shutter priority instead of manual and boosted the E/C a bit for better noise control in pp and/or had used spot metering on the white birds instead od center-weighted would have improved the shots? Thoughts?
Thank you and thanks for looking.

Rog
Gear:7Dll 7D 40D 24-105 4L, 70-200 4L, 300 4L IS, 85 1.8, 1.4 TC, Tamron18-270VC, Sigma 150-600 OS 430EX II

  
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twincitybulldog
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Mar 18, 2016 06:21 |  #2

Any shots of these magnificent birds under any conditions are great. I have never got the chance to photograph these endangered cranes.I think you did a excellent job and I really like them a lot. I hope we can save these birds for future generations. Good job!


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mandokid1
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Mar 18, 2016 08:35 |  #3

Well done Rog,considering the conditions you faced!


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PhotosGuy
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Mar 18, 2016 09:03 |  #4

You have some nice shots!

Wonder if I had shot in shutter priority instead of manual and boosted the E/C a bit for better noise control in pp and/or had used spot metering on the white birds instead od center-weighted would have improved the shots? Thoughts?

I would only have used manual exposure & this: Need an exposure crutch?
This is why: Post #47

And a bird standing there doesn't need 1/2500 sec which would help with the noise problem? Yes, the bird might take off, but (1) you could quickly switch to Tv or (2) just shoot. IMO sometimes a little motion blur in the wingtips adds to the shot. Sometimes a lot of motion blur makes a great shot! ; )

With that lens, I wonder why you used f/10? If you felt that you had to have it, why not take the shot & then drop down to f/4-5.6 & shoot some more? "Film" is cheap.

Again, you got some nice shots in tough conditions, & I think you might have been surprised if you explored a few other options.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
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Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
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Wallace ­ River
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Mar 18, 2016 09:30 |  #5

Hey Rog, good comments and thoughts from Frank above, but however you took them, it's awesome to get such shots of these guys, so very cool. Have a safe drive home, if you're leaving soon! I've started shooting in manual, and suspect I would have been around 1/1250th sec and f/8 for these, cause I would have had my 500 with doubler and f/8 is the widest I can get :p


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ardeekay
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Mar 18, 2016 10:02 |  #6

twincitybulldog wrote in post #17939383 (external link)
Any shots of these magnificent birds under any conditions are great. I have never got the chance to photograph these endangered cranes.I think you did a excellent job and I really like them a lot. I hope we can save these birds for future generations. Good job!

My thinking, too, Walt and thank you.

mandokid1 wrote in post #17939461 (external link)
Well done Rog,considering the conditions you faced!

Many thanks, Denis.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17939494 (external link)
You have some nice shots!
I would only have used manual exposure & this: Need an exposure crutch?
This is why: Post #47

And a bird standing there doesn't need 1/2500 sec which would help with the noise problem? Yes, the bird might take off, but (1) you could quickly switch to Tv or (2) just shoot. IMO sometimes a little motion blur in the wingtips adds to the shot. Sometimes a lot of motion blur makes a great shot! ; )

With that lens, I wonder why you used f/10? If you felt that you had to have it, why not take the shot & then drop down to f/4-5.6 & shoot some more? "Film" is cheap.

Again, you got some nice shots in tough conditions, & I think you might have been surprised if you explored a few other options.

Hey Frank, thank you for your input. I remember reading the palm expsure trick but have never really practiced it. Have to think about that and experiment. As for the ss, I was trying different speeds but thought given the distance, fast was necessary. Though using a tripod, it was sitting on the deck of an idling boat and some breezy conditions. As for the f10, I was shooting wide open, 5.6, or so I thought. Have to check my computer to see if exif is wrong or there was an unintentional change.
Back to exposure, if I had spot-metered on the white bird, do you think it might have helped? The bg would have been pretty dark, but here not that important.
thanks again.

Wallace River wrote in post #17939516 (external link)
Hey Rog, good comments and thoughts from Frank above, but however you took them, it's awesome to get such shots of these guys, so very cool. Have a safe drive home, if you're leaving soon! I've started shooting in manual, and suspect I would have been around 1/1250th sec and f/8 for these, cause I would have had my 500 with doubler and f/8 is the widest I can get :p

Thank you Ian, appreciate it. Next year, #1 priority is take this trip on a bright day! And thanks for the good wishes. Leave Tuesday. Been here since 9/20. We're gonna leave April 1 but Mama decided she wanted to be home for Easter after "missing" the fall/winter holidays. So, off we go!:-)


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TedEllis
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Mar 18, 2016 10:41 |  #7

Sweet captures Rog


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Snydremark
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Mar 18, 2016 10:58 |  #8

ardeekay wrote in post #17939374 (external link)
Due to a variety of reasons, I was down to my last chance to take the boat trip up to the Aransas Wildlife Refuge to see these magnificent birds. Unfortunately, it was very overcast, borderline foggy even. Given we were never closer than 40-50 yards from them, fast SS was necessary and therefore very noisy images. Did the best I could and hey, they're Whoopers! Plus there were some interesting opportunities. So, for what it's worth.

...

Sorry about the poor IQ. Couple of 20/20 hindsight thoughts/questions-
Wonder if I had shot in shutter priority instead of manual and boosted the E/C a bit for better noise control in pp and/or had used spot metering on the white birds instead od center-weighted would have improved the shots? Thoughts?
Thank you and thanks for looking.

Nice, Rog; especially the snake eater :)

It looks like you could have easily backed your shutter down a couple of stops and reduced your ISO by the same for most of the shots. 1/800 or so should have been plenty for all above, except, maybe the 2 dancing/landing. Then you could have come down and not had quite so much ISO noise. I don't think spot metering would have helped too much with your distance from the birds; I don't believe they'd have been a large enough part of your metering circle to make a big difference in your outcome.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (R5, RF 800 f/11, Canon 16-35 F/4 MkII, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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PhotosGuy
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Mar 18, 2016 11:42 |  #9

Back to exposure, if I had spot-metered on the white bird, do you think it might have helped? The bg would have been pretty dark, but here not that important.

Of course you could have used exposure compensation to get the meters mid-gray bird white, but what if a once-in-a-lifetime dark bird came by? I just have a problem with auto exposure unless I'm pointing it at a gray card.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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ardeekay
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Mar 18, 2016 19:17 |  #10

Snydremark wrote in post #17939584 (external link)
Nice, Rog; especially the snake eater :)

It looks like you could have easily backed your shutter down a couple of stops and reduced your ISO by the same for most of the shots. 1/800 or so should have been plenty for all above, except, maybe the 2 dancing/landing. Then you could have come down and not had quite so much ISO noise. I don't think spot metering would have helped too much with your distance from the birds; I don't believe they'd have been a large enough part of your metering circle to make a big difference in your outcome.

hey Eric, appreciate your input. So with stationary subjects at a long distance, do not necessarily need high ss? Okay. Good to know. Is there any guidelines you know of?

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17939625 (external link)
Of course you could have used exposure compensation to get the meters mid-gray bird white, but what if a once-in-a-lifetime dark bird came by? I just have a problem with auto exposure unless I'm pointing it at a gray card.

Yeah, what you said.-? Sorry, just a little above my pay grade I'm sorry to say. I do understand some of the finer points at the time, but retention and actual useage is my main problem. My bad! Thank you for your input and patience.

But do have a couple of more from the trip-

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1530/25890893565_a0a3c4866f_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FrTA​CD  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7163-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1676/25257955424_5e2170040d_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/EtXC​b5  (external link) RLK_20160316_IMG_7180-Edit.jpg (external link) by Roger Kortemeier (external link), on Flickr

These 2 had a little lower ISO(was at auto ISO for the entire shoot), and, I thought were a bit better w/ the IQ.
Thanks, all.

Rog
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Snydremark
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Mar 18, 2016 21:06 |  #11

ardeekay wrote in post #17940087 (external link)
hey Eric, appreciate your input. So with stationary subjects at a long distance, do not necessarily need high ss? Okay. Good to know. Is there any guidelines you know of?

...

Distance and shutter speed don't really have any relation to worry about. Focal length and shutter are the concern; in order to avoid camera shake the suggestion is to maintain the reciprocal of your focal length (1/400 or faster, when shooting 400mm). IS helps with this, as well, but I wouldn't rely on that until you're comfortable shooting at that suggested setting.

The other consideration would be shutter speed and motion; 1/500 or faster to stop (fast) action. But, with these, there isn't any "fast" action going on so the above would have been the only real concern.

Also, one of your earlier comments in response to Frank made me want to ask how you are determining your exposure when you're shooting Manual. Are you simply centering the needle? If so, do some more reading on exposure and how the meters in the camera work. Centered needle is only an accurate exposure if your metering area averages out to a middle gray tone, on a black and white scale. Lighter or darker tones require different adjustments.

For example, you asked about spot metering off of the white bird and commented that the b/g would have been really dark if you had done so. But, that would only have been true if you spot metered and set the needle to the middle; which would also have rendered your nice, white bird a dingy gray color. Because all the meter is really saying is "Here are the settings to render your subject (frame, in the case of Evaluative meters [Frank, double-check me on my terms here, plz]) middle gray". You, as the photographer need to be the one to say "Ahh, but that's wrong, I need to set the needle higher/lower than center", depending on whether your metering subject is, on average, lighter or darker than middle gray.

Classic examples are a white cat in snow or black dog in a cave. If you meter that, you would have to set the needle around +2 above center for the white scene or around +2 for the black scene to get your exposure and colors to come out correctly.

That's why Frank's crutch works so well; once you know where your palm reads for the camera in any, given light you can set your exposure for that and then anything else that you shoot in that same light will also be properly exposed.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (R5, RF 800 f/11, Canon 16-35 F/4 MkII, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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PhotosGuy
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Mar 18, 2016 23:34 |  #12

Good post, except...

Classic examples are a white cat in snow or black dog in a cave. If you meter that, you would have to set the needle around +2 above center for the white scene or around +2 for the black scene to get your exposure and colors to come out correctly.

Typo: -2 for black


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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Snydremark
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Mar 18, 2016 23:50 |  #13

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17940306 (external link)
Good post, except...
Typo: -2 for black

dammit...fingers got behind my brain. Thanks for that :p


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (R5, RF 800 f/11, Canon 16-35 F/4 MkII, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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Crimzon
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Mar 24, 2016 21:11 |  #14

Very nice series


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