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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 01 Feb 2016 (Monday) 01:01
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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

 
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GyRob
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Mar 21, 2016 13:23 |  #1231

Thanks for the ISO question reply's very interesting.

Rob.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 21, 2016 13:35 |  #1232

idkdc wrote in post #17943165 (external link)
How is ISO 50 on the 5D3 and 5DsR in comparison to ISO 32 and 64 on the D810? Base ISO on the 1DX Mark II is still 100, no?

You'd want to look at DxO's measured ISO to see that; it tells you how much exposure each ISO setting can take before clipping of the green RAW channel. The ISO settings in the camera themselves mean nothing except that a minimal amount of headroom is guaranteed. One may have lots of headroom; another very little. If you're shooting a scene with nothing is brighter than a 40% gray, you can expose for a much lower ISO than your camera setting, shooting RAW. People shooting at "ISO 100" with RAW ETTR are actually often shooting as low as 32 or less.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 21, 2016 13:39 |  #1233

sploo wrote in post #17943208 (external link)
As far as I understand, in a "perfect" system, halving the base ISO gives you an extra stop of DR. Thus a base of ISO 64 should give 2/3 of a stop more DR than an identical system with a base ISO of 100 (though unfortunately the 5D3 and 5Ds aren't identical to the D810 - they're much worse in the low ISO DR stakes, regardless of the differences in the base ISO).

Going below the camera's base ISO (32 on the D810, 50 on the 5D) isn't likely to give you any DR benefits. I assume they're just present to allow slow shutter speeds in the same conditions.

It all depends on how the ISOs are derived; you never get more DR when a camera "overexposes" for lower ISOs; you just shift DR from headroom to footroom. The benefit of actually using less analog gain depends on the ratio of post-gain noise to pre-gain. If post-gain is very high, there is little benefit to using less gain.




  
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umphotography
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Mar 21, 2016 14:50 |  #1234

ISo 50 or L is huge for what I do. It give me a stop when im outside in the middle of the day. With ND filters I can be at F/2.8 shooting wide open and not get the HSS look that you get with HSS. Also works great with my 85 and 135 letting me shoot at F/2.o during the day.......Its a must have for me


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MedicineMan4040
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Mar 21, 2016 19:08 as a reply to  @ umphotography's post |  #1235

Oft said but one ring to rule them all.


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johnf3f
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Mar 21, 2016 19:19 |  #1236

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #17943669 (external link)
Oft said but one ring to rule them all.

The Red Ring?


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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bps
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Mar 21, 2016 23:39 |  #1237

I hate to deliver some not-so-good news, but the shipping dates for the first batch of orders at the major US internet retailers just slipped a week. The new date is now listed as May 1st. (versus April 25th)

Bryan


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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 22, 2016 00:00 |  #1238

bps wrote in post #17943986 (external link)
I hate to deliver some not-so-good news, but the shipping dates for the first batch of orders at the major US internet retailers just slipped a week. The new date is now listed as May 1st. (versus April 25th)

Bryan

Disappointing, but a week's not too bad. Hope it holds. :)


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skid00skid00
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Mar 22, 2016 01:52 |  #1239

umphotography wrote in post #17943325 (external link)
ISo 50 or L is huge for what I do. It give me a stop when im outside in the middle of the day. With ND filters I can be at F/2.8 shooting wide open and not get the HSS look that you get with HSS. Also works great with my 85 and 135 letting me shoot at F/2.o during the day.......Its a must have for me

ISO 50 on the 5D3 overexposes the sensor by brightening the aperture or increasing exposure time, and then mathematically reducing the 'data values' recorded in the raw file. It's a camera-induced ETTR. It will cause clipping if your scene has a lot of DR.




  
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umphotography
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Mar 22, 2016 08:31 |  #1240

skid00skid00 wrote in post #17944033 (external link)
ISO 50 on the 5D3 overexposes the sensor by brightening the aperture or increasing exposure time, and then mathematically reducing the 'data values' recorded in the raw file. It's a camera-induced ETTR. It will cause clipping if your scene has a lot of DR.

I have NEVER experienced this. It gives me a stop. With a .9 ND and a circular polarizer stacked I can be at F/2.8-3.2 if F/16 light with a strobe at 12:00 getting great files...I prefer to use ND's v/s HSS. The look is definitely different.

I know its a mathematical way to trick the sensor but i find it extremely useful especially now that canon is dead set at setting gate speeds at 1/200-1/250. My 5D3s' dont go past 1/160 because the shutter starts to show at 1/200...ticks me off but thats the design.

I was really hoping they gave us 1/320-1/400 with this 1Dx2 release. I Really missed 1/320 with the 1DMKIV when I sold it.....with a .6 ND I could shoot 90% of my work with a strobe outside

Oh Well. No camera is perfect.


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bps
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Mar 22, 2016 09:42 |  #1241

David Arbogast wrote in post #17943997 (external link)
Disappointing, but a week's not too bad. Hope it holds. :)

Definitely agree...I hope it holds too and a week doesn't turn into 3 or 4 weeks.

Bryan


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skid00skid00
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Mar 22, 2016 10:25 |  #1242

umphotography wrote in post #17944218 (external link)
I have NEVER experienced this. It gives me a stop. With a .9 ND and a circular polarizer stacked I can be at F/2.8-3.2 if F/16 light with a strobe at 12:00 getting great files...I prefer to use ND's v/s HSS. The look is definitely different.

I know its a mathematical way to trick the sensor but i find it extremely useful especially now that canon is dead set at setting gate speeds at 1/200-1/250. My 5D3s' dont go past 1/160 because the shutter starts to show at 1/200...ticks me off but thats the design.

I was really hoping they gave us 1/320-1/400 with this 1Dx2 release. I Really missed 1/320 with the 1DMKIV when I sold it.....with a .6 ND I could shoot 90% of my work with a strobe outside

Oh Well. No camera is perfect.

It's well-documented that this is how Canon implements ISO 50. You ARE NOT gaining a stop, period. I'm not concerned that you are doing this, but I don't want others to take away incorrect info.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 22, 2016 11:42 |  #1243

skid00skid00 wrote in post #17944341 (external link)
It's well-documented that this is how Canon implements ISO 50. You ARE NOT gaining a stop, period. I'm not concerned that you are doing this, but I don't want others to take away incorrect info.

Exactly. It's not a native ISO - so it is functionally impossible for it to produce more DR (and to your point, potentially means less usable DR).
Regarding ISO 50 - I use it when doing AEB bracketing, so I get all the DR I need from the brackets. But, your explanation helps me realize why I see less noise in an ISO 50 image vs ISO 100 image on a Canon camera. Obviously an overexposed image has less noise than a lower-exposed image.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 22, 2016 12:00 |  #1244

David Arbogast wrote in post #17944416 (external link)
Exactly. It's not a native ISO - so it is functionally impossible for it to produce more DR (and to your point, potentially means less usable DR).
Regarding ISO 50 - I use it when doing AEB bracketing, so I get all the DR I need from the brackets. But, your explanation helps me realize why I see less noise in an ISO 50 image vs ISO 100 image on a Canon camera. Obviously an overexposed image has less noise than a lower-exposed image.

If you don't need that lost stop of headroom, this is actually the best way to do it, especially with cameras with high post-gain noise.

There is absolutely no reason why Digital cameras couldn't have developed in a tradition where it was known that clipping was just above bright matte whites, with all ISO done like ISO 50 on recent Canons. I photographed slide film for years, with no more highlight headroom than that. We are used to having that extra stop or so in the RAW highlights "just in case", but in well-metered situations with even lighting, it is not as necessary.

One could say that ISO 50 *is* the native ISO, if they could say that about any ISO at all, and that Canon only allows 100 and up through implicit HTP, and what they call HTP now is just 2-stop HTP. It boggles the mind why they don't have ISO 80 and 64, if they have 160 and 125. They would certainly be less problematic than 50 with highlights.




  
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bps
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Mar 22, 2016 14:09 |  #1245

Nothing new in this video, but if you want to see David Bergman fire off 224 frames at 14 fps, just click here (external link). (I haven't seen this video posted here yet.)

39 days and counting until May 1st...

Bryan


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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II
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