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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 21 Mar 2016 (Monday) 15:06
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quick canon vs nikon question for a beginner

 
heat00
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Mar 21, 2016 15:06 |  #1

As I rack my brain over the last month trying to figure out which new body (canon) that I'm going to buy, I finally took a few minutes to compare to similarly priced Nikons and am I crazy or on paper do the specs of the Nikon(s) seem to crush the canon? Does this not result in real world differences?
For example, the 7dII vs a d750 seem to be closely priced but when I look at the advantages of the Nikon, I am thinking that it's too bad I have this 70-200 for canon? 30% better image quality? Is that really true? 3 times higher iso to reach the same noise level? Lighter and double battery capacity? I'm not looking to open up any debate or nikon vs canon threads as I'm sure there are thousands of them, I am very much in the beginning stages of photography and before I knew anything, I bought a canon years ago (t3I) which I want to upgrade. Now that I look into some of this I am shocked as these seem to be very important features, I mean 30% better image quality must mean something?? Sure this Nikon seems slightly more expensive and maybe I'm not comparing the right models, however even the lower model Nikons seem to win in these important categories?

Low light performance Much lower noise at high ISO 2,956 ISO vs 1,082 ISO The D750 has excellent image quality: 1.4 f-stops higher ISO than the 7D Mark II
Overall image quality Much better image quality 93.0 vs 70.0 More than 30% better image quality
Color depth Better color depth 24.8 bits vs 22.4 bits Distinguishes 2.4 more bits of color
Dynamic range More dynamic range 14.5 EV vs 11.8 EV 1.1 f-stops more dynamic range
Screen size Much larger screen 3.2" vs 3" Around 10% larger screen
Screen flips out Has a flip-out screen Yes vs No Flip-out screens can be helpful when composing tricky shots or taking movies
Viewfinder size Larger viewfinder 0.70x vs 0.62x Around 30% larger viewfinder
Screen resolution Higher resolution screen 1,229k dots vs 1,040k dots Around 20% higher resolution screen
Battery life Longer battery life 1230 shots vs 670 shots More than 80% more shots per battery charge
True resolution Higher true resolution 24.3 MP vs 20 MP Capture more than 20% more detail in your photos
Built-in focus motor Has a built-in focus motor Yes vs No Autofocuses with all autofocus lenses
Weight Lighter 750 g vs 910 g Around 20% lighter
Size Slightly smaller 141×113×78 mm vs 149×112×78 mm Help Almost the same




  
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Snydremark
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Mar 21, 2016 15:27 |  #2

A lot of the numbers in all of these specs are like comparing computer CPUs and proclaiming a winner based on a speed difference of .9Ghz. In real-world use, it won't make a noticeable difference.

That said; the two systems have different foibles and particularities. Pick one and just learn, heavily, about those particularities and how to work with them. They'll all produce very nice images as long as you learn to do your part.

There is a ton of "greener grass" that gets spread about either side of the fence, but neither direction is a wrong answer. If you learn to expose properly, digital noise just simply isn't an issue with modern bodies since around the 7DII (and arguably before), unless you are printing massive prints for closeup view, or have some sort of *really* high demand application of the images. It simply doesn't show enough in prints, and can be managed well enough in digital presentation to not detract from the images.

Physical things, like the viewfinder, LCD displays, higher resolution sensors are certainly things that can sway a decision, but you'll find there's variation in those, even amongst a single brand.

"Image quality" is both highly subjective and *extremely* dependent on the photographer. It's fairly useless benchmark; besides, if that 70-200 is the MkII, it's pretty much the best 70-200 on the market at the moment. I would hazard that you won't be able to tell the difference between a shot taken with the d750 vs the same shot taken with a 7DII, if both are taken by the same photographer and same framing.

The "built in focus motor" discussion is, realistically, sort of pointless; outside of some seasoned shooters that are making use of much older, existing glass. For a new photog, modern glass is modern glass and will work with all of the modern, Nikon digital bodies.

TL;DR: Pick a system and roll with it. You'll get a great system, either way.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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welshwizard1971
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Mar 21, 2016 15:34 |  #3

Well, products go in cycles, and for a long time Canon have been top dog, but at the moment sensor wise, which is obviously important, Nikon and Sony are top of the pile. But, that doesn't make Nikon or Sony top dogs. Canon has a much bigger range of lenses, the canon lenses are generally regarded as being better quality with the odd exception, Canon seems to have a more popular interface/user experience, Canon has excellent back up service, people seem to find Canon has better skin tones, Sony have very few lenses ( but are rapidly getting better ) but hardly any accessories ( for example flash ) or third party accessories on the market. So, the bare facts as presented by yourself fall far short of painting the overall picture, for example the 5dmkIII is what, 4 years old, and is still considered one of the best all round cameras out there. Also worth saying some of the things you've listed may not be good points, it's lighter, well, that's not good with a long lens, and it may be lighter as it's poorer construction, or doesn't have weatherproofing, a flip out screen is great, until it ruins a professional shoot when it breaks, smaller isn't good if you have big hands, 670 shots ( which is about half of what I get out of my 5DmkIII so that sounds very low to me ) is still waaaay better than Sony and Fujifilm at about 150. I bought the 5dmkIII very recently, I was looking at it against the Nikon D810, a great camera, an awesome camera, but the feel of the camera put me off, and the canon lens line up was the deciding factor for me.


5DIII, 40D, 16-35L 35 ART 50 ART 100L macro, 24-70 L Mk2, 135L 200L 70-200L f4 IS
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Bassat
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Bassat.
     
Mar 21, 2016 16:26 |  #4

I had the same dilemma about 7 years ago, when I went from Yaschica (no Canon/Nikon influence) to some flavor of digital. This was compounded by the fact that my brother had already went with Nikon. In the end, I went with Canon. Logic? Glass. Canon has a larger divesity of better lenses, that for the most part cost less. Lenses make photographs. Cameras just record the results.

Sure, there are some particular differences between bodies, within and among the different manufacturers. I don't tend to keep bodies very long. Lenses tend to stick around longer. As usual, YMMV.




  
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Alveric
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Mar 21, 2016 16:32 |  #5
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Bassat wrote in post #17943450 (external link)
[..] Lenses make photographs. Cameras just record the results.

bw!


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heat00
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Mar 21, 2016 18:34 |  #6

Ok good to hear, thanks!

So while I have you, what about the 7dii vs the 80d, for what I need which is primarily indoor basketball.




  
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Bassat
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Mar 21, 2016 19:12 |  #7

heat00 wrote in post #17943615 (external link)
Ok good to hear, thanks!

So while I have you, what about the 7dii vs the 80d, for what I need which is primarily indoor basketball.

Full disclosure: I've never used either one of these cameras. But I am just nerdy enough (TF fodder, there) to read reviews and download camera manuals.

If I were buying a crop camera today, it would be the 80D. -3EV AF & 27 cross-type AF points at f/8 is FREAKIN' HUGE!. Basketball is not a challenge to any AF system. I shot BB, hockey, and volleyball and polo quite successfully with a 60D. Put glass like the 85 1.8 or 135L in front of any modern body and you are good. My current crop, the 70D, keeps up little kids' soccer & football just fine. You don't need a 7DII for most sports, and I'd say ANY foot-powered sports. Humans just don't move that fast. And even my 6D (known for less than stellar AF) responds well to target priority settings (stay on, or switch), as long as I use the center point. For what you intend to shoot, the 80D can do everything you need done, and a few things the 7DII can't do.




  
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heat00
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Post edited over 3 years ago by heat00.
     
Mar 21, 2016 21:50 |  #8

Thanks, it's not as much the AF that I was concered with but more the low light situations and maybe a body that can perform better at higher ISO. Many of the gyms are terribly lit and my t3i and 70-200 Sigma struggle.
I was thinking about the new sigma 50-100 1.8 with the 80d or 7dii, to help with the low light problem... I don't want a fixed lens as every gym and situation requires different positioning and many times the 70-200 on the crop is too close and like I said the 2.8 sometimes is a struggle.
I'm hoping that a better body is the right place to start, and then I'll address the lens. I also think I should have just gotten the canon 70-200 over the sigma 70-200 however it might be too late to fix that problem lol and when there is enough light, the sigma seems to do ok.




  
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EverydayGetaway
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Mar 21, 2016 23:01 |  #9

I personally think you'd find more less biased answers if you posted this question on a forum like Fred Miranda, the user base here is still largely Canon.

That said, you're not really comparing apples to apples. Yes, in terms of sheer IQ the D750 will blow the 7Dii out of the water, for one big reason... the D750 is a full frame camera and the 7Dii is an APS-C (crop sensor) camera.

The 7Dii has a much more advanced AF system, much faster burst rate, and a lot of nice bells and whistles which is why it's price is so high compared to other APS-C bodies... in my opinion it's overkill for most shooters, the 80D would be the better buy for most.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Snydremark
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Mar 21, 2016 23:08 |  #10

Bassat wrote in post #17943674 (external link)
Full disclosure: I've never used either one of these cameras. But I am just nerdy enough (TF fodder, there) to read reviews and download camera manuals.

If I were buying a crop camera today, it would be the 80D. -3EV AF & 27 cross-type AF points at f/8 is FREAKIN' HUGE!. Basketball is not a challenge to any AF system. I shot BB, hockey, and volleyball and polo quite successfully with a 60D. Put glass like the 85 1.8 or 135L in front of any modern body and you are good. My current crop, the 70D, keeps up little kids' soccer & football just fine. You don't need a 7DII for most sports, and I'd say ANY foot-powered sports. Humans just don't move that fast. And even my 6D (known for less than stellar AF) responds well to target priority settings (stay on, or switch), as long as I use the center point. For what you intend to shoot, the 80D can do everything you need done, and a few things the 7DII can't do.

Only 9 points are cross-type; just like the 1DxI and 7DII. Canon data sheet (external link), see AF section on top of pg 4. WiFi and NFC are pretty danged nice, though.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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azenis
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Mar 22, 2016 02:35 |  #11

Find what photography style suit you and then find the camera that best suit your style.

There's no what's better. Something perfect for my need might be crappy for what you intend to do.

Shoot... then shoot some more until you realize that it's actually the camera that's limiting your shooting, then find something that can bring you to the next level. Next thing you know, you have gone through several bodies, if not brands.




  
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heat00
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Mar 22, 2016 07:22 |  #12

Thank you all. I'll play with the 80d once in stores and compare it to the 7dii and somehow make a decision lol. It seem they will both perform fine for what I need.




  
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Mar 22, 2016 12:02 |  #13

I am heavily invested in Canon glass and accessories and if I were buying a new camera today I would be very, very tempted by the specs of the Nikons - D810, D750 and D500 compared to their Canon counterparts. However, two things would keep me in the Canon camp notwithstanding my investment and that is Canon's wider variety of lens as well as better quality in most cases and better quality control. The Nikons seem to be plagued with quality control issues that Nikon can't seem to get under control. Before the fanboys pee in their pants and start jumping up and down declaring their Nikon to be the best camera they've ever seen or used I'll temper my statement with "this is solely my opinion based on my experience. Your (fanboy) mileage may vary.


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heat00
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Mar 22, 2016 15:05 |  #14

Thank you, I will have to stay with Canon as well since I already have my 70-200 lol.




  
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Bassat
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Bassat. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 22, 2016 16:09 |  #15

Bassat wrote in post #17943674 (external link)
Full disclosure: I've never used either one of these cameras. But I am just nerdy enough (TF fodder, there) to read reviews and download camera manuals.

If I were buying a crop camera today, it would be the 80D. -3EV AF & 27 cross-type AF points at f/8 is FREAKIN' HUGE!. Basketball is not a challenge to any AF system. I shot BB, hockey, and volleyball and polo quite successfully with a 60D. Put glass like the 85 1.8 or 135L in front of any modern body and you are good. My current crop, the 70D, keeps up little kids' soccer & football just fine. You don't need a 7DII for most sports, and I'd say ANY foot-powered sports. Humans just don't move that fast. And even my 6D (known for less than stellar AF) responds well to target priority settings (stay on, or switch), as long as I use the center point. For what you intend to shoot, the 80D can do everything you need done, and a few things the 7DII can't do.


Snydremark wrote in post #17943962 (external link)
Only 9 points are cross-type; just like the 1DxI and 7DII. Canon data sheet (external link), see AF section on top of pg 4. WiFi and NFC are pretty danged nice, though.

DP Review claims 27 cross-type points at f/8 on the 80D. http://www.dpreview.co​m …the-canon-eos-80d?slide=4 (external link)

I have the manual, but my wife is using the computer right now.

EDIT: Snydremark got it right. I just checked the manual. Max of 9 cross-type points (all from center group) at f/8. There are 27 functional points at f/8 - 9 cross and 18 horizontal only. Beats the crap out of my 6D, anyway.

EDIT of the EDIT. DPR only claims 27 f/8 points. Not 27 cross @ f/8. I got that wrong.




  
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