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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Apr 2016 (Wednesday) 12:04
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My 80D

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 08, 2016 13:43 |  #16

iowajim wrote in post #17964070 (external link)
I went to the manual to figure out how to change the autofocus modes, and it was there that I saw that the autofocus performance was dependent on the lens in use. Canon identifies 8 autofocus performance 'groups' (A-H), followed by a list of canon lenses and the group it belongs to.

Group "A" uses all 45 focus points, and the center point is a double cross type.
Group "B" is the same as A, sans the double cross point
Group "C" has 45 points, but the outer 10 points are not cross type, if I interpret their terms correctly
Group "D" has 45 points, but the outer 30 are not cross type, e.g. only the center section points are cross-type
Group "E" has 35 points by losing the outer 10 points entirely
Group "F" has 35 points available, fewer cross type
Group "G" has 27 points
Group "H" has one point only.

So as I read about that I thought that I might be in for a disappointment as 2 of my 3 lenses are not Canon and perhaps would not be well-supported. I don't know where my Tamron 70-200 fits, but I can confirm that I'm happy with the results so far. OK, so a few examples for the lenses:

Group A: EF-S 17-55mm; primes 2.8 or faster; EF24-70mm (both types)
Group B: EF24-105 f/4; EF70-300
Group C: EF75-300, 100-300
Group D: 24-85, 55-200
Group E: 35-70; 28-70
Group F: 22-55
Group G: 100-400 w/ 1.4x; 200-400 w 1.4x and 2x
Group H: Long zoom lenses with teleconverters

From looking through the list it appears that modern lenses should fall in groups A-D, and that the majority of those should be A or B. That is until we get to the BIF enthusiasts.

So I'm very happy with the performance, but if a person were to buy it hoping for a double cross focus point, look for that asterisk.

thanks Jim.
It is not completely new that certain AF functions are limited by the lens in use. In fact this has been the case for many camera bodies for many years. It does however seem to be getting more complicated as the generations mount.

The reason I ask about specific first hand instance is, in the past with bodies with similar cut off points, we've rarely if ever run into an actual bottleneck that resulted in complaints of performance loss. Personally I have not. I know my 5D3 and 7D2 (and 1D's for that matter" have similar cut offs, but in use I never really seem to notice a hit.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 08, 2016 13:50 |  #17

BigAl007 wrote in post #17963668 (external link)
So the magic AF system is not so magic after all? There are a lot of things about the post 50D XXD series camera's ergonomics and feature set I don't like too much. The headline information on the AF system, with the multiple f/8 AF points, along with 24 MP, would probably be enough to push me to the 80D anyway. If that AF is not going to play with my Sigma 150-600 and the Sigma 1401 converter with multiple AF points, then there is little point in looking at it. My current three lenses that I actually use are all Sigma's of various ages/qualities.

Alan


Which leads me to this,
I bet it's still magic.

If you read Jim's post, he had nothing but good things to say about the AF in use, and the only "however" was based on the written specs, not actual testing.

I'm shooting the Canon 100-400mm2 and other faster lenses right alongside the SIGMA 150-600mm C on the similar 7D2 AF system among others, and as mentioned above, i am not feeling in any way limited by this "slow" 3rd party lens when used with these other bodies that also have certain published limitations with slower lenses.

What is written in specs on paper may not be as significant as it sounds unless shooting in extreme low light. Most of us won't be reaching for an f/6.3 wide open lens in such conditions, so real world performance may still be "magic".


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Apr 08, 2016 13:55 |  #18

Sorry for the thread derail, I didn't know you were using the Sigma Jake, how are you finding it?


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 08, 2016 13:58 |  #19

nellyle wrote in post #17964948 (external link)
Sorry for the thread derail, I didn't know you were using the Sigma Jake, how are you finding it?

In a nutshell, better than the old 100-400mm in every way except for speed of zooming (but even the new 100-400mm looses out there)
Plus it gives me 600mm in a hand held lens. Wow.


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iowajim
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Apr 08, 2016 21:34 |  #20

SixDeeFan wrote in post #17964122 (external link)
Careful when using the Tamron 70-200 and Live View. It'l probably be necessary to remove the battery. It appears the Tamron needs a firmware update.

I have the same issue. Here's Tamron's response:

http://www.tamron-usa.com/about/updates_​canon.php (external link)


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TheNewGuy01
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Apr 09, 2016 08:28 |  #21

I wonder if it would be worth while to have a dedicated post to 3rd party lenses on newer Canon cameras like the 80D, speculating what mode A-H they use. I am sure that the OEM will not provide this information. I am looking to purchase the 80D and I currently have 2 Tamron lenses. The question of how much of the focus system is actually used has given me pause. I will certainly add to this as soon as I have something relevant to add


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Apr 09, 2016 10:07 |  #22

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17964942 (external link)
Which leads me to this,
I bet it's still magic.

If you read Jim's post, he had nothing but good things to say about the AF in use, and the only "however" was based on the written specs, not actual testing.

I'm shooting the Canon 100-400mm2 and other faster lenses right alongside the SIGMA 150-600mm C on the similar 7D2 AF system among others, and as mentioned above, i am not feeling in any way limited by this "slow" 3rd party lens when used with these other bodies that also have certain published limitations with slower lenses.

What is written in specs on paper may not be as significant as it sounds unless shooting in extreme low light. Most of us won't be reaching for an f/6.3 wide open lens in such conditions, so real world performance may still be "magic".


Well my problem is that I am using a 150-600 C and as you do I absolutely love it. My problem is that I still find that when used on an APS-C format body I still need to regularly crop by 1.5× (imagine cropping from a horizontal to a vertical format, and then turning it back horizontal. In LR in the crop tool I hit the X key twice to do this. This crop is effectively giving me a 900mm FoV. So I would really like the option of using the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter. The initial headline details suggested that the 80D would allow this with more than just the center AF point, that other Canon bodies already get you. If I'm not going to get the expanded f?8 AF with non Canon lenses then I will pass on one, and look for other options that I would prefer for ergonomic and interface choices. Looks like I'll keep the 50D and look at some more lenses instead at the moment.

Alan


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Apr 09, 2016 10:41 as a reply to  @ TheNewGuy01's post |  #23

Not a bad idea at all. I kicked it off here:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1457021

This will allow assembly of a consolidated database, if people join in.


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Apr 09, 2016 15:12 |  #24

BigAl007 wrote in post #17965802 (external link)
Well my problem is that I am using a 150-600 C and as you do I absolutely love it. My problem is that I still find that when used on an APS-C format body I still need to regularly crop by 1.5× (imagine cropping from a horizontal to a vertical format, and then turning it back horizontal. In LR in the crop tool I hit the X key twice to do this. This crop is effectively giving me a 900mm FoV. So I would really like the option of using the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter. The initial headline details suggested that the 80D would allow this with more than just the center AF point, that other Canon bodies already get you. If I'm not going to get the expanded f?8 AF with non Canon lenses then I will pass on one, and look for other options that I would prefer for ergonomic and interface choices. Looks like I'll keep the 50D and look at some more lenses instead at the moment.

Alan


I wouldn't be surprised if some have managed to get the 600mm zooms to try to function function with a non reporting 1.4x. I doubt there is much chance of it ever being a useful solution either from an AF standpoint, or optically. 600mm in a hand held "compact" zoom I think is the current reasonable end of the road. We are blessed to have such an option (that was not available in any form just a few years ago, now we have a number of choices)
No Canon body has ever been able to reliably AF @ f/10. (600mm = 1.4x t-con)


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Apr 09, 2016 20:58 |  #25

BigAl007 wrote in post #17965802 (external link)
Well my problem is that I am using a 150-600 C and as you do I absolutely love it. My problem is that I still find that when used on an APS-C format body I still need to regularly crop by 1.5× (imagine cropping from a horizontal to a vertical format, and then turning it back horizontal. In LR in the crop tool I hit the X key twice to do this. This crop is effectively giving me a 900mm FoV. So I would really like the option of using the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter. The initial headline details suggested that the 80D would allow this with more than just the center AF point, that other Canon bodies already get you. If I'm not going to get the expanded f?8 AF with non Canon lenses then I will pass on one, and look for other options that I would prefer for ergonomic and interface choices. Looks like I'll keep the 50D and look at some more lenses instead at the moment.

Alan

Even with just centre point focus, surely 80D with 600mm + 1.4 with 24Mp to play with will yield more 'crop ability' than the 50D with native 600mm and only 15Mp to crop from.

I found this to be the case when I went from the 50D to the 7D2, and that is only 20Mp, so the 80D should be even more so.


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Apr 11, 2016 07:57 |  #26

Not sure if this is the correct thread but I thought I would share this. I was struggling to get my 80D to open EOS Utilities after connecting via Wi-Fi but after searching the net for the last three days found someone had to make an exception in their antivirus (AVG) to get it to work with there 70D. I tried it with making an exception in my antivirus (Avira) and it worked!!. I hope this helps someone and if it has been covered before I apologize.


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Apr 11, 2016 08:06 |  #27

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17964935 (external link)
thanks Jim.
It is not completely new that certain AF functions are limited by the lens in use. In fact this has been the case for many camera bodies for many years. It does however seem to be getting more complicated as the generations mount.

Yea...i just got mine and was reading the chart in the manual. After a few minutes...i just said "screw this" and put my lens on. It works well, that's all that matters. The only thing I needed to know was that the center AF point is the most reliable, which has always been the case anyway.


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Apr 11, 2016 11:31 |  #28

05Xrunner wrote in post #17963700 (external link)
from the list in the manual. Any lens that is f8 by adding a TC only gets center AF point only no other points can be turned on

That is not correct. While it is true for the 7D2 it is not for the 80D. Depending on the lens being used, up to 27 focus points are available on the 80D when shooting with an extender at a maximum aperture of f/8


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Apr 11, 2016 12:11 |  #29

mwsilver wrote in post #17968198 (external link)
That is not correct. While it is true for the 7D2 it is not for the 80D. Depending on the lens being used, up to 27 focus points are available on the 80D when shooting with an extender at a maximum aperture of f/8

did you actually read my 2nd post. the ONLY 2 options that give you 27 points is the 100-400II with the 1.4x TCIII and 200-400 with 1.4TCIII. Any other option is only center point only.


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