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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Macro Talk 
Thread started 09 Mar 2016 (Wednesday) 13:48
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If You Had a Choice on a lens Other than MACRO

 
Archibald
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Apr 20, 2016 10:59 |  #31

John Koerner wrote in post #17978358 (external link)
Pretty much any time you're going 2:1 and over, your working distance is going to be small. My working distance going 2:1 with the 28mm, reversed, is actually greater than the working distance the MP-E 65mm has at 2:1.

Just curious, what is the working distance for the Nikon 28mm reversed? Is it the flange distance?


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Apr 20, 2016 11:00 |  #32

Wilt wrote in post #17978403 (external link)
Anyone know why Nikon calls 'macro' lenses 'Micro-' ?!?!?! I thought microphotography was > 10X

Microphotography is making tiny prints.


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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 20, 2016 12:02 |  #33
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Archibald wrote in post #17978413 (external link)
Just curious, what is the working distance for the Nikon 28mm reversed? Is it the flange distance?

I will take a precise measurement + photo and get back to you ... later today or by tomorrow ... have to work now :lol:




  
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Apr 20, 2016 13:23 |  #34

Wilt wrote in post #17978403 (external link)
Anyone know why Nikon calls 'macro' lenses 'Micro-' ?!?!?! I thought microphotography was > 10X

Agreed. > 10x is conventionally microphotography and 1x to 10x maco.

Perhaps a market differentiation thing.


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Apr 20, 2016 13:38 |  #35

Lester Wareham wrote in post #17978592 (external link)
Agreed. > 10x is conventionally microphotography and 1x to 10x maco.

Perhaps you guys are thinking of photomicrography. I don't think 'microphotography' means anything, unless it means photography by a very small photographer, or making tiny prints.


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Apr 20, 2016 13:40 |  #36

Archibald wrote in post #17978614 (external link)
Perhaps you guys are thinking of photomicrography. I don't think 'microphotography' means anything, unless it means photography by a very small photographer, or making tiny prints.

OK, OK we got the term wrong...at least I don't call 'blur' by the term 'bokeh' !:lol:


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Apr 20, 2016 14:55 |  #37
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #17978323 (external link)
Sure with manual lenses, however for Canon shooters, there are many EF and EFS lenses that are cheap and work outstandingly well as a reversed macro. I am sure the same is true with Nikkor lenses. I have used reversing rings with those, but it is tedious without the electronic solution that Vello offers.

Again, Canon does NOT offer all-manual lenses that fit current cameras ... which is why it is "tedious" to you ... which is also why you need the 3rd party $99 mount to adjust electronic communications.

Only Nikon has kept its original F-Mount, whereas Canon dropped its elder mount in 1987, so Canon's non-electric elder manual lenses no longer work on the newer EF mount.


TeamSpeed wrote in post #17978323 (external link)
This was shot using a simple reversing ring and a kit 18-55 EFS lens (cheap at $50). However it was tedious to frame and focus because I had the aperture locked down to something very small before taking the shot, and it was difficult to see everything in the viewfinder.

Again, see above. Reverse macro with Canon is not as optimal as with Nikon manual lenses because all of Canon's lenses have electronic gadgetry (except the MP-E).

If I shot Canon, I would use the MP-E 65mm.


TeamSpeed wrote in post #17978323 (external link)
You can spend $15 for a Canon reversing ring all the way up to the $100 full DSLR capability that Vello offers so that you can use alternative lenses for macro use. If I were doing that all the time, I would personally spend the extra to make life easier.

For the 5th time, you don't need to "make life easier" if you are shooting with an all-manual lens ... you shoot Canon, so you don't know what "manual aperture" means.

If you shot Nikon, you would realize that you are NOT "stuck" on a given aperture, precisely because the manual aperture ring enables you to freely-adjust the aperture from the reverse position as well.

Jack




  
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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 20, 2016 14:58 |  #38
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Wilt wrote in post #17978403 (external link)
Anyone know why Nikon calls 'macro' lenses 'Micro-' ?!?!?! I thought microphotography was > 10X


Generally, "macro" photography is considered 1-5x magnification.

"Micro" = is what Nikon calls "Macro."

10x Magnification = Photomacrography (microscopic photography) ...




  
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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 20, 2016 15:03 |  #39
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Archibald wrote in post #17978413 (external link)
Just curious, what is the working distance for the Nikon 28mm reversed? Is it the flange distance?

I am on lunch break, and was wrong in what I said.

The working distance of the Nikon 28mm at 2.1x is 50mm. (2 in)

By contrast, the working distance of the MP-E 65, at 2.0, is 63mm (2.5 in).

So the MP-E has the slight advantage in working distance at 2x over the Nikon 28mm Ai-S reversed.

But the 28mm Ai-S is 100x more versatile for all aspects of nature photography.

Jack




  
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Apr 20, 2016 15:40 |  #40

John Koerner wrote in post #17978696 (external link)
10x Magnification = Photomacrography (microscopic photography) ...

For the 6th time, it's 'photomicrography'.


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Apr 20, 2016 16:03 |  #41

John Koerner wrote in post #17978746 (external link)
Really, smartass?

Explain that to the creator of Zerene Stacker and Photomacrography.net (external link) :rolleyes:

Take a lesson, junior: Photomicrography = photography taken through a microscope.

Photomacrography = photography taken with a camera through lenses and enhancements to lenses.

Did I hear you say "10x Magnification = Photomacrography"?


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Apr 20, 2016 16:33 |  #42

OK guys, Olympus is a company that still has a strong presence in scientific microscope manufacture and sales. In their 1975 accessories book which accompanied the OM-1MD documentation, they specifically use the term 'photomicrography', and both Olympus and Websters Unabridged defines that term as "photography through a microscope".

OTOH, 'photomacrography' in Webster's is "showing subject at actual size or somewhat larger'

As for the macro through 60X without a microscope that was linked, the article specifically states, "I’ve tested it with microscope objectives from 2.5x through 60x,"

And Archibald was right, when correcting my use of 'microphotography'...i​t indeed is making a photo that requires optical magnfication to be seen, such as in microfilm.


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Apr 20, 2016 17:43 |  #43

John Koerner wrote in post #17978692 (external link)
Again, Canon does NOT offer all-manual lenses that fit current cameras ... which is why it is "tedious" to you ... which is also why you need the 3rd party $99 mount to adjust electronic communications.

Only Nikon has kept its original F-Mount, whereas Canon dropped its elder mount in 1987, so Canon's non-electric elder manual lenses no longer work on the newer EF mount.

Again, see above. Reverse macro with Canon is not as optimal as with Nikon manual lenses because all of Canon's lenses have electronic gadgetry (except the MP-E).

If I shot Canon, I would use the MP-E 65mm.

For the 5th time, you don't need to "make life easier" if you are shooting with an all-manual lens ... you shoot Canon, so you don't know what "manual aperture" means.

If you shot Nikon, you would realize that you are NOT "stuck" on a given aperture, precisely because the manual aperture ring enables you to freely-adjust the aperture from the reverse position as well.

Jack

1) There are manual lens available for Canon from other manufacturers, from manual focus to manual aperture if you want it. I am very well versed in macro photography, from reversing rings to extension tubes to a number of 1:1 macro lenses. I also am very versed in all Canon lenses, having owned too many to count, although I try to keep that list updated in my Previous Equipment link. I don't need a history in FD lenses or why you using a reversed manual lens is easier than using a reversed electronically controlled aperture lens, regardless of manufacturer.

2) We don't need a $99 device, it just makes it easier and allows the camera to focus, meter, etc. We can make due with a $15 ring too, which is what the shot I provided was made with. However having the camera fully aware of the lens, and able to meter, AF, and shut down the aperture at the time of the shot has some nice advantages. Shutting down the aperture with a simple reversing ring on a Canon DSLR is quite easy, you simply set your aperture, hit the DOF button, and dismount the len, viola, the aperture has manually been set much like switching the aperture ring on your lens.

3) This is a Canon forum as well, so you can certainly try to retort what you want regarding Nikon, however I am supplying info for the Canon shooters' benefit here.

4) Also we can indeed use FD lenses provided we use the Canon M3 with adapter. So we have the same ability you do with your Nikon and manual aperture lenses, should we choose to use that camera.

I really don't know why you are being so argumentative, because nothing I have stated is incorrect, nor did I ever say anything about the Nikon side of the house. I am only providing info and insight toward the Canon shooters. Please choose to ignore all I am posting since you appear to primarily be a Nikon shooter, these things don't pertain to you, but do to a number of other readers. Even though this forum has been opened up to all other camera model shooters with the advent of AMASS, I am very sure a majority of members are still Canon shooters on POTN, or at least own a Canon, so my info and the others' input are all good info for this thread.


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Apr 20, 2016 17:53 |  #44

Let's just keep calling it macro photography, because that is what a vast majority of members will understand this discussion to be about, as will the manufacturers continue to call it for their lenses and camera modes. ;)


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Apr 20, 2016 18:03 |  #45

I just like having a good macro lens, instead of reversing a lens too. Having the 100L is nice, and allow easier macro shots of moving critters, like the little pillbug (which is really not an insect). Having IS is very nice with macro shots, and you cannot get that with a reversing ring, unless you use an electronic go-between. If I could not afford a macro lens, or only wanted to take one lens with me, I would probably try to take some ext. tubes first, but also a reversing ring if that was all I had available.

IMAGE: https://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Still-Life/Macro-Magic/i-wCVRQx8/0/X2/IMG_1752-X2.jpg

What you can shoot with for macros will depend pretty heavily on what you plan to shoot. Still objects like flowers, bugs that are sedentary, etc are fine for the more "coarse" methods of macro shooting, but if I have a choice, I will always buy a 100mm or longer macro lens. If I want more than 1:1, I will add extension tubes, but the DOF is so hard to work with. The macro lenses make for great portrait lenses too.

One of my funniest macros, and I believe I used the smallest ext. tube.

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