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Thread started 16 Apr 2016 (Saturday) 16:34
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Canon vs Other For Changing ISO While Metering

 
Timza
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Apr 16, 2016 16:34 |  #1

I just bought a Canon 50D on ebay with low shutter count. I like many things about it. I had a Canon A2 film autofocus body back in the 1990's so I leaned toward Canon. And am now learning the ins and outs of digital after years of point and shoots.

I like how when I am metering and I am in Tv or Av, the shutter, aperture and ISO numbers show on the bottom of the view screen. And I can turn the front/top camera dial and as the aperture or shutter changes the shutter or aperture changes to maintain the exposure. But, when the camera is metering, and I press the ISO button, the shutter and aperture metering numbers disappear. Then after I make changes to the ISO, when I press the ISO button again, the view screen goes dark as if the camera is off.

Ok. Ok. Ok. After I make changes to the ISO I can press the shutter button and re-initiate metering and the new shutter and aperture numbers show up. But, I don't like how when I change the ISO I can not see the new shutter or aperture numbers. When I change aperture or shutter I see the change to the shutter or aperture. When I change ISO. I am blind. I have to change the ISO, press the shutter to check the new metering, then maybe change the ISO again.

Maybe first I need to ask if I am missing something. Is there some setting where pressing the ISO button temporarily changes the front/top dial to ISO where I can change ISO while the shutter and aperture remain visible and change, and then it times out back to changing the shutter or aperture?

Otherwise, do higher end Canon cameras, or enthusiast level crop body cameras from other manufactures handle changing ISO more like how my camera changes shutter or aperture? If the exposure triangle is so important, how come there is not a a dial that clicks through shutter, aperture, ISO, exposure compensation, program shift, sharpness, saturation, contrast settings, while the other dial rolls through the values. And when in shutter or aperture or ISO settings you could set any of those to auto. So you would not have P Av Tv M settings, you would just put shutter and aperture in auto for P etc. Is there something about the electronics of the sensor that makes changing the ISO different than changing the shutter or aperture?

I like many things about this camera and am learning and practicing and am planning on eventually getting a 70 to 210 L lens. But as I uncover things that frustrate me, I would be willing to go to another system before I get pro level glass. I would love to have more direct control of ISO and would love to have manual mode - auto ISO - exposure compensation. How do I find out about what cameras have this ability in a world where most of the reviews talk about sensor size, low light performance, and frames per second? Is there a name for this, like full triangle control during metering?

Let me know.

Thank you.

Tim.




  
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Jon
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Apr 16, 2016 20:20 |  #2

Pressing the ISO button doesn't preserve the "state" the camera was in when you pressed it. So when you press the ISO button again, it reverts to "sleep" mode with the LEds off.

ISO is handled the way it is, on your 50D and virtually all other cameras, because we're still living with the legacy of film, where you couldn't change ISO on a whim. If you want to let ISO float more freely, try using ISO Auto. There is a mode where shutter, aperture, and ISO all can float freely - the "Green Box" (or any of the other "Basic" modes).

Manual mode + Exposure Compensation + Auto ISO is sort of an oxymoron. Manual exposure implies that you've chosen what to meter, and you're locking the exposure to that (and shifting off the "0" point for your EC). If you throw in "Auto ISO", how do you know the camera will be metering off the same thing you chose to? And how does the camera know how much off the "norm" you want exposure to be, even assuming it guesses correctly where you wanted to meter.


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Bassat
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Apr 16, 2016 20:39 |  #3
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I just bought a 1D3. I can set the Quick-Control dial to change ISO while metering is active. I am certain new (1D/1Ds) bodies can do the same.




  
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Apr 16, 2016 21:38 |  #4

on my 5D3 i custom set the "Set" button so that when i hold it down i can use the scroll wheel at the top to change ISO and it does that in real time (showing all info including change in metering in the viewfinder) is that what you mean?


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Timza
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Apr 17, 2016 02:21 |  #5

Yes. Excellent. My set button won't do that. I have my set button programmed to view pictures taken and also turned auto review off. So my camera back stays dark. But when I want to look I press set and roll the rear dial to see the images I have taken. I really like that. So far I like everything about my 50D except this and it is not a big thing since this camera is more for daylight action photography where I am usually in Av mode with exposure compensation set to underexpose a little, where I then set the ISO for my minimum shutter speed in my darker images.




  
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Apr 17, 2016 04:43 |  #6

I shoot a 50D, and in your situation I would set the "Set" button to ISO. Since you have to remove the camera from your face anyway it would then not make it very hard to use the standard image review button on the bottom left corner of the camera body. The camera will always open with the last image taken either way.

I have to say that with digital I have never felt limited by not seeing the metering while changing ISO. I only use the whole stop ISO values anyway as I use Expose To The Right, and nine times out of ten I can pick the ISO value that I will need to get the shutter speed/aperture value combination that I am looking for. So I will have the necessary ISO set before lifting the camra to my face. Just as you needed to know the conditions that were likely when choosing the correct film speed to load. At least with digital you can change the speed from shot to shot. Much better than being loaded with Kodachrome 25 on a sunny day outside, and then having to try to get a shot indoors without flash. I do miss good old Kodachrome 25 at times.

Alan


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Apr 17, 2016 12:02 |  #7

BigAl007 wrote in post #17974482 (external link)
...Much better than being loaded with Kodachrome 25 on a sunny day outside, and then having to try to get a shot indoors without flash. I do miss good old Kodachrome 25 at times.

Alan

Yep, and the only fix for it was:


  1. Make note of exposures taken
  2. Rewind film making certain to leave the leader out(not always easy and often missed wasting remaining frames)
  3. Load new film with different ASA/ISO/DIN
  4. Make all indoor exposures required
  5. If whole roll not used, repeat steps 1 & 2
  6. Replace the Kodachrome roll
  7. Attach lens cap and fire the shutter enough times to get past the number of previous exposures
  8. Click and advance one more frame or risk double exposure on last previous frame
  9. Remove lens cap and resume shooting


Shooo, I don't miss film at all.:-P...Though I do miss Kodachrome's colors.

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Apr 17, 2016 12:44 |  #8

rrblint wrote in post #17974809 (external link)
Shooo, I don't miss film at all.:-P...Though I do miss Kodachrome's colors.

I do miss the working in the darkroom at times, with the smells of dev and fix, and working in the red safelight, or even by feel in pitch darkness when printing Cibachromes. I don't miss the cost of the film though. I also won't deny that the image quality that we seem to be able to get from a modern digital sensor, even when it is 2.56× smaller in area than a 35mm frame is incredible. I would never have considered enlarging a 10mm×13mm area of a 35mm negative to 16×12 with virtually no grain. So no I don't want to give my digital up, so I guess I'll just stay sentimental about it.

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Timza
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Timza.
     
Apr 17, 2016 17:49 |  #9

BigAl007 wrote in post #17974482 (external link)
I shoot a 50D, and in your situation I would set the "Set" button to ISO.

Alan. Sorry. You can't assign ISO to the SET button of a 50D. And why would I if I could, because the button nearest to my top index finger is the actual ISO button anyway.

BigAl007 wrote in post #17974482 (external link)
...it would then not make it very hard to use the standard image review button on the bottom left corner of the camera body.

Two more things I don't like about the 50D. The image review and menu buttons being way over on the left side of the back of the body.

Help. My thread was moved from the this vs that forum and now it has been highjacked.

What level of Canon camera and above or newer adjusts ISO while metering shutter and aperture are visible?

What level of Nikon camera and above or newer adjusts ISO while metering shutter and aperture are visible?




  
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apersson850
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Apr 18, 2016 07:58 |  #10

As stated above, 1D-series cameras (at least the newer ones, like my 1DX) does allow programming the SET button for ISO change. What you get in addition to the normal ISO button on top is that when using the SET button, metering is still active, so you can see the aperture and/or time change as you modify the ISO value.
Thus functionality of SET button programmed for ISO change is a bit different compared to normal ISO button. Unlike when you program the SET button to image review, in which case it works exactly like the normal "play" button.


Anders

  
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Timza
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Apr 19, 2016 00:37 as a reply to  @ apersson850's post |  #11

It looks like the 50D and 60D cannot do this, but I did look up and read that both the 70D and 80D can. It looks like the "custom controls" menu was upgraded with the 70D and that it also allows changing the operation of the front and rear dials in manual mode.




  
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Apr 19, 2016 03:19 |  #12

The upgrade to the custom control setting came with the 7D in 2009. Cameras introduced after that has the new style (perhaps some entry level model excluded; I don't know that).


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Apr 19, 2016 13:10 |  #13

basketballfreak6 wrote in post #17974298 (external link)
on my 5D3 i custom set the "Set" button so that when i hold it down i can use the scroll wheel at the top to change ISO and it does that in real time (showing all info including change in metering in the viewfinder) is that what you mean?

I have both my 5D3 and 7D2 setup that way. Before upgrading my 7D to a 7D2, I was constantly pressing the SET button on the 7D to try and change ISO, as I became so used to the feature on the 5D3, but the original 7D didn't support this function.


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Apr 21, 2016 10:49 |  #14

Timza wrote in post #17974005 (external link)
I just bought a Canon 50D on ebay with low shutter count. I like many things about it. I had a Canon A2 film autofocus body back in the 1990's so I leaned toward Canon. And am now learning the ins and outs of digital after years of point and shoots.

I like how when I am metering and I am in Tv or Av, the shutter, aperture and ISO numbers show on the bottom of the view screen. And I can turn the front/top camera dial and as the aperture or shutter changes the shutter or aperture changes to maintain the exposure. But, when the camera is metering, and I press the ISO button, the shutter and aperture metering numbers disappear. Then after I make changes to the ISO, when I press the ISO button again, the view screen goes dark as if the camera is off.

Ok. Ok. Ok. After I make changes to the ISO I can press the shutter button and re-initiate metering and the new shutter and aperture numbers show up. But, I don't like how when I change the ISO I can not see the new shutter or aperture numbers. When I change aperture or shutter I see the change to the shutter or aperture. When I change ISO. I am blind. I have to change the ISO, press the shutter to check the new metering, then maybe change the ISO again.

Maybe first I need to ask if I am missing something. Is there some setting where pressing the ISO button temporarily changes the front/top dial to ISO where I can change ISO while the shutter and aperture remain visible and change, and then it times out back to changing the shutter or aperture?

Otherwise, do higher end Canon cameras, or enthusiast level crop body cameras from other manufactures handle changing ISO more like how my camera changes shutter or aperture? If the exposure triangle is so important, how come there is not a a dial that clicks through shutter, aperture, ISO, exposure compensation, program shift, sharpness, saturation, contrast settings, while the other dial rolls through the values. And when in shutter or aperture or ISO settings you could set any of those to auto. So you would not have P Av Tv M settings, you would just put shutter and aperture in auto for P etc. Is there something about the electronics of the sensor that makes changing the ISO different than changing the shutter or aperture?

I like many things about this camera and am learning and practicing and am planning on eventually getting a 70 to 210 L lens. But as I uncover things that frustrate me, I would be willing to go to another system before I get pro level glass. I would love to have more direct control of ISO and would love to have manual mode - auto ISO - exposure compensation. How do I find out about what cameras have this ability in a world where most of the reviews talk about sensor size, low light performance, and frames per second? Is there a name for this, like full triangle control during metering?

Let me know.

Thank you.

Tim.

As far as changing ISO when metering, only the high end Canon's do that like the 5D Mark II and III and the 1DX's. Not sure about the others. I want to do the same thing with my T5i and cannot and was told that only the high end cameras can do that. I first learned about it during a seminar with Joe Buissink and Wedding Photography and that is what he does, changing the ISO in the viewfinder with an active meter. (I'm jealous HA). I used to have the 50D.




  
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