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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 26 Apr 2016 (Tuesday) 22:17
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Nikons new D500 vs the Canon 7DII

 
Bianchi
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Apr 26, 2016 22:17 |  #1

Share your thoughts, it's going to be interesting

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skid00skid00
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Apr 27, 2016 08:19 |  #2

Great clickbait from a guy making money from views.

He seems to judge the Nikon as significantly better because the numbers are bigger, rather than how well the cameras actually perform (he didn't have a D500 in-hand).




  
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ksbal
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Apr 27, 2016 08:40 |  #3

Yawn... moving on...


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Apr 27, 2016 09:24 |  #4

I would expect a brand new camera to outperform a nearly 2 year old one. But clearly Nikon has raised the bar.


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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 27, 2016 14:21 |  #5
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Sorry.

The Canon 7D Mark II failed to beat even the older, smaller Nikon D7200 (external link) in sensor quality ... the 7D2 just had faster FPS and AF.

When the 7DII first came out, it was rated 12th in sensor quality ... it just had fast FPS and new AF ... on a pale, weak sensor.

Now that the D7200's "big brother" has arrived, the new Nikon D500 beats the Canon 7DII in every conceivable way.

Which is what a new flagship entry ought to do 8-)


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Apr 27, 2016 18:29 |  #6

The D500 looks like a very nice camera - perhaps the best sports/wildlife APSC body at present.
I haven't tried one myself but I have tried Nikon's higher end bodies on their SuperTele lenses, including the latest 500 and 600 F4 "E" incarnations. All I can say is that they need some significant improvements in their AF performance before I start to want the better DR etc. Naturally the D5 was the pick of the crop but still well behind my 1DX and "old" 800 F5.6 regarding AF speed and acquisition. I didn't have it with me so this is just an impression but the D5 and 500 F4 E didn't seem any quicker/more accurate than my 7D2 on my Canon 800mm.
I did, however get the chance to have an extensive play with the Canon 1DX2 on my 800mm - just WOW! On the 500 and 600mm Mk2 lenses the 1DX2 was just scarily fast and accurate.

When Nikon make lenses and AF systems to match their sensors I will look long and hard at switching - until then "in focus" beats every other consideration.;-)a


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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 27, 2016 18:53 |  #7
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johnf3f wrote in post #17987364 (external link)
The D500 looks like a very nice camera - perhaps the best sports/wildlife APSC body at present.
I haven't tried one myself but I have tried Nikon's higher end bodies on their SuperTele lenses, including the latest 500 and 600 F4 "E" incarnations. All I can say is that they need some significant improvements in their AF performance before I start to want the better DR etc. Naturally the D5 was the pick of the crop but still well behind my 1DX and "old" 800 F5.6 regarding AF speed and acquisition. I didn't have it with me so this is just an impression but the D5 and 500 F4 E didn't seem any quicker/more accurate than my 7D2 on my Canon 800mm.
I did, however get the chance to have an extensive play with the Canon 1DX2 on my 800mm - just WOW! On the 500 and 600mm Mk2 lenses the 1DX2 was just scarily fast and accurate.

When Nikon make lenses and AF systems to match their sensors I will look long and hard at switching - until then "in focus" beats every other consideration.;-)a


Nikon doesn't have just better DR, but better color rendition (easily 1/3rd more color sensitivity), better ISO performance, less noise, etc.

"Focusing fast" nice on the &D2, but it's kind of a hollow victory if the image is being recorded on a sensor that doesn't let that image "be all it can be," but has less color, less DR, and more noise :cry:

For that matter, the quickness is what's been addressed in Nikon's new AF system, which is also now reputed to eclipse the Canon.

I agree, the 1Dx2 is neck and neck with the D5, but that isn't the subject.

The subject is the 7D II, which was pale and sick in the sensor department back when it was released, and it is just not even interesting to think about in today's market.

I waited years for the 7D2 to come out, and after I read the specs, I am glad I switched brands.

At the end of the day, you come home and look at files ... and if you know in your heart that your color and DR is compromised, and noise elevated ... and that you "could have done better" with another choice, it is hard to be satisfied.

I am glad I don't have that problem anymore ...




  
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johnf3f
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Apr 27, 2016 20:00 as a reply to  @ John Koerner's post |  #8

I have yet to have an issue with DR on any camera, though I am sure it matters to some?

You state that ""Focusing fast" nice on the &D2, but it's kind of a hollow victory if the image is being recorded on a sensor that doesn't let that image "be all it can be," but has less color, less DR, and more noise"
Well I will happily take an in focus file and see what I can do with it. What can I do with an out of focus file?

As you correctly state the point is the 7D2 (which is a pretty good camera) - though I agree it's not the best. However it does have one BIG advantage, an EF mount! Coupled with the longer EF lenses it gets me a high/very high proportion of in focus shots on moving subjects - the Nikons that I have tried do not do so well, the D4/D4s were pretty poor in my experience and the D5 adequate. So the D500 is going to be a step up on those with the same lenses? Really? As to "For that matter, the quickness is what's been addressed in Nikon's new AF system, which is also now reputed to eclipse the Canon." Well not on the Nikon flagship cameras and lenses that I have tried. Just too hesitant and it keeps switching and adjusting on static subjects. On my 7D2 and 1DX I use Servo mode for everything - no hunting if my subject stops moving or if it is a landscape = no need to change mode.
All other considerations are irrelevant until you have a sharp, in focus, file to work with and from my experience Nikon do not (yet) provide that for my uses. Were I shooting only landscapes then Nikon look much better but Sony look better still?

You are obviously a fan of Nikon products and I hope they fill your needs, they do not fulfil mine and, to date, do not look as though they are going to. So I will be happy getting "Inferior" but in focus images and you can be happy getting better IQ if/when it focuses.

From experience of your previous posts you seem to have some quite firmly ingrained opinions on gear - that's fine - but it makes it pointless to try discuss things rationally. So interpret the above how you will, I have tried the alternatives and they just do not stack up for my uses so I see no point in further discussions with you on this point.
Have a nice day.


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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 27, 2016 20:31 |  #9
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johnf3f wrote in post #17987450 (external link)
From experience of your previous posts you seem to have some quite firmly ingrained opinions on gear - that's fine - but it makes it pointless to try discuss things rationally. So interpret the above how you will, I have tried the alternatives and they just do not stack up for my uses so I see no point in further discussions with you on this point.
Have a nice day.

Read what you just wrote: you have as "firmly-ingrained" opinions as I do.

You seem to operate under the self-centered belief that, if I agree with you, then I am "rational" ... but if I don't agree with you ... then it is "pointless" to debate with me :rolleyes:

Whatever, guy.




  
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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 27, 2016 20:46 |  #10
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johnf3f wrote in post #17987450 (external link)
As you correctly state the point is the 7D2 (which is a pretty good camera) - though I agree it's not the best. However it does have one BIG advantage, an EF mount! Coupled with the longer EF lenses it gets me a high/very high proportion of in focus shots on moving subjects

I disagree that the EF mount is an advantage, lens-wise.

Nikon makes 4 out of the top 10 primes, Zeiss 2, Leica 2, and Canon 2.

Canon makes good zooms, both they and Nikon make 4 out of the top 10, each, with Sigma making the remaining 2.

As far as FF cameras go, Nikon makes 5 of them, Canon only 1 (the bottom).

As far as APS-C cameras go, Canon makes 0 (as in ZERO), Nikon makes the top 6 in a row.

So I am not sure how much of an "advantage" the EF mount is at all ...


johnf3f wrote in post #17987450 (external link)
the Nikons that I have tried do not do so well, the D4/D4s were pretty poor in my experience and the D5 adequate. So the D500 is going to be a step up on those with the same lenses? Really?

I am pretty sure your sour grapes opinion won't line-up with the rest of the world's ...


johnf3f wrote in post #17987450 (external link)
As to "For that matter, the quickness is what's been addressed in Nikon's new AF system, which is also now reputed to eclipse the Canon." Well not on the Nikon flagship cameras and lenses that I have tried. Just too hesitant and it keeps switching and adjusting on static subjects. On my 7D2 and 1DX I use Servo mode for everything - no hunting if my subject stops moving or if it is a landscape = no need to change mode.

That is great, continue to use your 7D II then ... and enjoy the pale, washed-out colors, the blown highlights and noisy blacks, knowing that each capture you make only retains a fraction of what a better sensor would have captured.


johnf3f wrote in post #17987450 (external link)
All other considerations are irrelevant until you have a sharp, in focus, file to work with and from my experience Nikon do not (yet) provide that for my uses. Were I shooting only landscapes then Nikon look much better but Sony look better still?

If you can't get a subject in-focus with a Nikon, then there is something wrong with you, not the equipment.

There are plenty of photographers, far better than you, who use Nikon and capture razor-sharp images ... and all of the information possible in their image-files, but nice try :rolleyes:

As for Sony, a great sensor, but not as robust a camera. The new A7rII is also only marginally-better than the old D810 ... and I am sure it will get trounced by the forthcoming D900 ;)

I thought about Sony, because of their new sensor, but I didn't want to buy an adapter for each lens I purchase. I would rather just own Nikon, have essentially the same-quality sensor, and have the best lenses made (of which Sony makes ZERO) be attached directly to my camera, same brand as my camera, not through an the additional purchase/hassle of an adapter.

Jack




  
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Apr 27, 2016 20:51 |  #11

The 7D2 works very well for my portraiture and sports shooting, its high ISO is very easy to work with. That is all I need to know. The 5D3 then takes on anything else I find lacking. Thus there is nothing I care about on the Nikon.If I wanted better, I would go to the source of the Nikon sensor tech, over to Sony. :)

That is my thought on the matter.


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John ­ Koerner
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Apr 27, 2016 20:54 |  #12
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TeamSpeed wrote in post #17987524 (external link)
The 7D2 works very well for my portraiture and sports shooting, its high ISO is very easy to work with. That is all I need to know. The 5D3 then takes on anything else I find lacking. Thus there is nothing I care about on the Nikon.If I wanted better, I would go to the source of the Nikon sensor tech, over to Sony. :)

That is my thought on the matter.

Hell, I can still take good photos with the old 7D ...

But there are many instances where it failed me, noise/quality-wise, where a better sensor would have prevailed.

If you're happy with what you have, that is great.

I know I am happy with what I have, the D810, and my D500 is coming next week :lol:




  
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Apr 27, 2016 20:56 as a reply to  @ John Koerner's post |  #13

7D2 at 12800 producing NBA posters, with noise that is very easy to manage and process. That worked for more folks than just me. :)


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Apr 27, 2016 20:57 |  #14

I would like to say: I prefer discussions to debates. In a debate, people are trying to "win". In a discussion, everyone can learn.

I will add, I had a 7D2 but now use a 1D IV. I couldn't be happier.

I have lots of birding books. Several of them are authored by more than one person and in those cases, some of the authors use Nikon and the others use Canon. For what I shoot, I'm sure either would work well. The Canon shooters often used the 1D IV and the 500 f/4 ll. The Nikon shooters used the D4 or D4S since the D5 is so new. Nikon's 500 f/4 lens was often the lens of choice in the aforementioned books.

It will be interesting to note what systems authors of birding books use in the future.


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Apr 27, 2016 21:12 as a reply to  @ Phoenixkh's post |  #15

Good points.
Photographers use what they have to hand and if they have the skills they will get great images. Every system has it's pros and cons and what suits you or me may not be the best solution for others but skill/experience is still the most important factor.
For me fast/accurate AF and tracking with long lenses is the top priority, so after much research I ended up with my current system. For others different factors may be more important so they should choose accordingly.
You are quite right - discussion is far more useful than debate (squabbles?).:-)


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