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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 06 Dec 2015 (Sunday) 09:51
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Ulysses01
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May 11, 2016 07:03 |  #691

dmward wrote in post #18003067 (external link)
The real benefit of using the 600 for both main and background light is the ability to use the UNIT/ALT feature to do masking.

David, here's my question. I'm a fan of the traditional method well demonstrated by fjhphotography. So I'm wondering: While the masking function works well with Manny in your demo, will it work as well with people, especially with groups of people?

Related to the above, how closely together do the frames need to be fired in order to eliminate normal body motion so the masking frames will actually work together?




  
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dmward
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May 11, 2016 07:41 |  #692

fjhphotography wrote in post #18003130 (external link)
Nice read! Should be available with the XPLOR then. =)

Yep.
Its reached by going to the menu then scroll down to UNIT, 2MASK, 3, 4 next option is ALT, 1, 2, 3, 4 That's where you select which shutter press will fire the light. For mask set foreground light(s) to Mask, 1. And background light(s) to Mask, 2.

Then fire away. I've found during my experiments that its important to set the power on the background lights to minimize any wrap from the background on the subject. Even if it means the background isn't really white. The objective is a clear edge between unlit subject and background that it at least up toward 80% or more in Lightroom.
It can then be adjusted easily in Photoshop using levels to perfect the mask contrast.


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bigVinnie
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Post edited over 3 years ago by bigVinnie.
     
May 11, 2016 08:27 |  #693

Ulysses01 wrote in post #18003389 (external link)
... how closely together do the frames need to be fired in order to eliminate normal body motion so the masking frames will actually work together?

Hensel recommends 10fps for live subjects. The Canon 1D series has a CFn to limit shot count. Other models you can use the exposure bracket feature and fire 3 shots. Just ignore the 3rd.

It does not really matter if the sequence of forground/background changes for manual processing.

This software for automating the masking has a setting to skip the 3rd shot
http://www.picture-instruments.com …ts/index.php?id​=3&lang=en (external link)


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dmward
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May 11, 2016 10:15 |  #694

Ulysses01 wrote in post #18003389 (external link)
David, here's my question. I'm a fan of the traditional method well demonstrated by fjhphotography. So I'm wondering: While the masking function works well with Manny in your demo, will it work as well with people, especially with groups of people?

Related to the above, how closely together do the frames need to be fired in order to eliminate normal body motion so the masking frames will actually work together?

The key to masking is minimal movement. None is best. :-)

As Vince points out faster burst is best. If you have a camera that permits setting the number of shutter fires in a burst that's great.
Otherwise you'll have to try to get it right by feel. If the light recycles fast enough, then the third shutter fire will fire the first group and get you out of sequence using the bracket feature. I tried it with my A7. For most group or people shots, if you get the pose, then ask them to hold it while you fire two quick ones.

Its also important to have the camera on a tripod. I tried a few the other day with a model. She stayed still, I moved the camera. vmad


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dmward
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May 11, 2016 10:17 |  #695

bigVinnie wrote in post #18003448 (external link)
Hensel recommends 10fps for live subjects. The Canon 1D series has a CFn to limit shot count. Other models you can use the exposure bracket feature and fire 3 shots. Just ignore the 3rd.

It does not really matter if the sequence of forground/background changes for manual processing.

This software for automating the masking has a setting to skip the 3rd shot
http://www.picture-instruments.com …ts/index.php?id​=3&lang=en (external link)

I've been fiddling around with masking in Photoshop. Not sure how much better the software would be unless someone is in a production mode.


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bigVinnie
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May 11, 2016 10:27 as a reply to  @ dmward's post |  #696

Software is not worth the money.

I played around a bit using shell script and imagemagick to merge the images into one with a transparent background. Not the route I'm going to go but better than $400 just to fool around with masking.


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abbadon31
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May 11, 2016 10:36 |  #697

bigVinnie wrote in post #18003448 (external link)
Hensel recommends 10fps for live subjects. The Canon 1D series has a CFn to limit shot count. Other models you can use the exposure bracket feature and fire 3 shots. Just ignore the 3rd.

It does not really matter if the sequence of forground/background changes for manual processing.

This software for automating the masking has a setting to skip the 3rd shot
http://www.picture-instruments.com …ts/index.php?id​=3&lang=en (external link)

I think my batch action is just as fast as the software and it was free and easy to make


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dmward
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Post edited over 3 years ago by dmward.
     
May 11, 2016 10:59 |  #698

Here is one I masked in Photoshop in about 5 minutes. It was handheld so some of the time was just getting the mask and the model image to align.
I agree that the software isn't worth it. Some scripts or actions will get it done. Especially if one is careful with the setup to minimize problems. i.e. This shot was done at F4 with a long lens so the hair is out of focus. That gives Photoshop fits when trying to get the mask image black and white.

This test was further complicated by my shooting the two images with separate shutter presses rather than burst or bracket mode. I did tell the model to hold her pose when I did the shot.

Maybe, if we are nice, Scott will even share his batch action. :-D

IMAGE: http://dmwfotos.com/wp-content/gallery/MASK-SAMPLE/A7R2B-5-8-16-084-2381.jpg

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May 11, 2016 12:21 as a reply to  @ dmward's post |  #699

With manual flash settings to have exact same lighting, why not just take a shot without the model, and do a difference keying ? Would be lot simpler and reliable (this technic is heavily used in compositing).


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Post edited over 3 years ago by abbadon31.
     
May 11, 2016 15:08 |  #700

KiboOst wrote in post #18003683 (external link)
With manual flash settings to have exact same lighting, why not just take a shot without the model, and do a difference keying ? Would be lot simpler and reliable (this technic is heavily used in compositing).

because if the model moves then you mask is useless. I set my camera to fire 7 frames sec and strobes to 1/6 power on a tripod and every other shot is the mask for moving objects.


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enginyr
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Post edited over 3 years ago by enginyr.
     
May 11, 2016 15:10 |  #701

If you know you are going to mask your subject, why don't you just shoot green screen?


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May 11, 2016 15:13 |  #702

abbadon31 wrote in post #18003828 (external link)
because if the model moves then you mask is useless. I set my camera to fire 7 frames sec and strobes to 1/6 power on a tripod and every other shot is the mask for moving objects.

I think what he's saying is you take two shots. One of the model and one of the background. The difference between the two frames is your mask. I'm not sure if that would work, but I think that's what he's suggesting.


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May 11, 2016 15:22 |  #703

Love free masking


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abbadon31
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May 11, 2016 15:34 |  #704

dmward wrote in post #18003625 (external link)
Maybe, if we are nice, Scott will even share his batch action. :-D

LOL if i did that people would never learn how to do it on their own. ;)


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Ulysses01
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May 11, 2016 15:41 |  #705

abbadon31 wrote in post #18003855 (external link)
LOL if i did that people would never learn how to do it on their own. ;)

So true. Much better to really learn, and this particular PS skill isn't difficult to learn.

I don't have any specific NEED for this feature. But it's intriguing enough that I'll try it out at some point.




  
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