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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 26 Apr 2016 (Tuesday) 22:17
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Nikons new D500 vs the Canon 7DII

 
John ­ Koerner
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May 29, 2016 10:32 |  #91
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LincsRP wrote in post #18022491 (external link)
Oh, and half of the rants made by some about 7D2 focussing in the early days were those who found the AF so complex they had to eventually go and read the instruction book.
:-D

If you want to believe that reviewers "can't figure out" how to use the 7D II, but magically figured out how to use the D500, as a way to justify the 7D II's fail rate to make yourself feel better, that is on you.

The 7D II is a fine, mid-level APS-C, but the D500 is superior across the board. Again, denial isn't rebuttal, it is only denial.

No one was "ranting" about the 7D Mk II, what they were saying is (in addition to having the #12 sensor, quality-wise) the 7D II could not discern objects moving toward, or away from, with anywhere near the accuracy of the D500.

So, basically, you're going to be missing more shots (firing-off discards), while those shots you do get will be mid-level. You will simply get more keepers with the D500, and those you keep will be stored on the highest-quality sensor in the class.

As for all the "great shots" taken with the 7D II, most of what I've seen have been great subjects, taken with great composition on the part of the photographer, but where the image quality was often grainy and noisy and not the same quality as what can be expected with better sensors. The 7D II may have been an upgrade for Canon shooters, but the specs are quite a bit lower than what other sensors are capable of producing.

Again, the same Canon Explorer of Light couldn't keep a straight face when asked to compare the quality of the 7D II to his 1Dx, and he admitted there was a noticeable difference, let alone when when you compare 7D II images to images taken by cameras with better sensors than the 1Dx ;)

Anyway, this could go on forever. There are facts stated and posted all over the net, and it is clear you will simply keep denying reality. Very well, then.

I am through with this topic, so rail-on if you have to.

Good luck,

Jack




  
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aladyforty
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May 29, 2016 10:59 |  #92

John Koerner wrote in post #18022658 (external link)
As for all the "great shots" taken with the 7D II, most of what I've seen have been great subjects, taken with great composition on the part of the photographer, but where the image quality was often grainy and noisy

Jack

obviously not looking too hard


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May 29, 2016 14:06 |  #93

Woohoo, we can get to more level-headed objective comparisons and discussions! :D I have never had any issues with the 7D2 tracking subjects toward or away from me, while getting results that served up about 5K fan posters, etc.


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aladyforty
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May 29, 2016 19:21 |  #94

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18022844 (external link)
Woohoo, we can get to more level-headed objective comparisons and discussions! :D I have never had any issues with the 7D2 tracking subjects toward or away from me, while getting results that served up about 5K fan posters, etc.


Me either, I'm always amused at comments made by people about cameras they dont own and also if you look at their gallerys its often full of photos that could have been taken with any camera, in other words nothing out of the ordinary. I use high ISOs with my 7DII all the time with little or no noise


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aladyforty
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May 29, 2016 21:26 |  #95

out of curiosity I downloaded the ISO 6400 still-life shots from this site of both cameras. Was expecting something really amazingly better from the D500 compared to the 7DII, yes its slightly better but really would be barely noticeable after very minimal editing. I rarely go over 6400 ISO

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/CO​MPS01.HTM (external link)


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John ­ Koerner
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Post edited over 3 years ago by John Koerner. (4 edits in all)
     
May 30, 2016 11:57 |  #96
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aladyforty wrote in post #18023118 (external link)
Me either, I'm always amused at comments made by people about cameras they dont own and also if you look at their gallerys its often full of photos that could have been taken with any camera, in other words nothing out of the ordinary.

Well, I guess your little dig at me prompted me to make one more comment:

I too am always amused by people who have never owned a camera above a 700 rating and so "think" their low-end camera is "the same" as a high-end one ;)

Also, since you're referring to my galleries and the "nothing out of the ordinary" images contained therein, had you paid closer attention you would see that 99% of my photos (7 years' worth) were taken with the Canon 7D ... so I agree with you :)

I have only had my D810 4 months, and I work over 200 hrs/month, so I have only taken a handful of images with my new Nikon, which comprise less than 1% of the images in my gallery.

Ergo: most of my images are all Canon :-)

As to your own photography, frankly I think you are a wonderful photographer. I looked at your gallery, and can only take my hat off to you

IMAGE: http://www.thenaturephotographer.club/images/smilies/hatsoff.gif

I really mean that :)

That said, when scrutinized, despite the wonderful job you've done with composition and lighting, many of your images (e.g., Web of Dreams, Bluebird) are in fact riddled with noise. This brings me back to paragraph 5, of Post #91, above.

You wouldn't know the difference, as the stats for the 7DII and 5DMK III aren't much better than each other, but should you decide to upgrade, you will definitely see the difference. (Especially at full-size.) I know I have.

Anyway, I really do think your photography is wonderful :)

Jack



  
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aladyforty
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May 31, 2016 09:33 |  #97

John Koerner wrote in post #18023738 (external link)
Well, I guess your little dig at me prompted me to make one more comment:

I too am always amused by people who have never owned a camera above a 700 rating and so "think" their low-end camera is "the same" as a high-end one ;)

Also, since you're referring to my galleries and the "nothing out of the ordinary" images contained therein, had you paid closer attention you would see that 99% of my photos (7 years' worth) were taken with the Canon 7D ... so I agree with you :)

I have only had my D810 4 months, and I work over 200 hrs/month, so I have only taken a handful of images with my new Nikon, which comprise less than 1% of the images in my gallery.

Ergo: most of my images are all Canon :-)

As to your own photography, frankly I think you are a wonderful photographer. I looked at your gallery, and can only take my hat off to you
[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

I really mean that :)

That said, when scrutinized, despite the wonderful job you've done with composition and lighting, many of your images (e.g., Web of Dreams, Bluebird) are in fact riddled with noise. This brings me back to paragraph 5, of Post #91, above.

You wouldn't know the difference, as the stats for the 7DII and 5DMK III aren't much better than each other, but should you decide to upgrade, you will definitely see the difference. (Especially at full-size.) I know I have.

Anyway, I really do think your photography is wonderful :)

Jack



for the record I was talking in general, but thanks for the compliment :-)


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Bianchi
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May 31, 2016 11:45 |  #98

John Koerner / Jack.... I suspect you may have your new D500 by now, if possible, can you post up some images.. Personally would like to see some high iso in poor light and good light.... Also elaborate on it's AF system


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May 31, 2016 16:34 |  #99

LincsRP wrote in post #18022070 (external link)
DPReview has a grudge against Canon - have you seen a review of the 1DX with DPReview? No, I haven't either. DPReview got all snarled up with Canon a while back and some Nikon reviews tend to be a bit over zealous methinks.

You have any links or proof of this "sideways/vendetta" against canon?

I would love to see it, or is it just your opinion and used to try and validate your view ?




  
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John ­ Koerner
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Post edited over 3 years ago by John Koerner. (2 edits in all)
     
May 31, 2016 22:04 |  #100
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Bianchi wrote in post #18024934 (external link)
John Koerner / Jack

Jack's fine.

No need to say, "John Koerner / Jack."

If you were addressing a "Robert Anderson," who signed as Bob, would you need to say, "Robert Anderson / Bob," or would that look pretty stupid and socially-inept talking to someone like that?

Someone might get the crazy idea you're being condescending.

So here's a tip: socially-aware people realize, if the man signs his name as "Bob," that is all you need to call him.

The same truth applies here.


Bianchi wrote in post #18024934 (external link)
I suspect you may have your new D500 by now, if possible, can you post up some images..

Wish I could say, "Yes," but I am still wating for mine vmad


Bianchi wrote in post #18024934 (external link)
Personally would like to see some high iso in poor light and good light.... Also elaborate on it's AF system

Personally, I can't wait to go out with both the D810 and the D500 with my Cotton Carrier (external link).

I will put the new AF system of the D500 to work on my 300 f/2.8 VR II, for action shots, while using my all-MF primes on my D810 for shots where I have time to compose/focus, etc.

My girlfriend and I are going to Havasu Falls (external link) in a couple of weeks, and I have a vintage, mint condition Ai-S f/3.5 15mm rectilinear lens (external link) due to arrive from Japan by the 12th, so I am pretty stoked, but it will be used exclusively on my D810 :-P

As for the AF system of the D500 will get mated to my 300mm ... and I hope to put it to good use ... whenever B&H gets some more :rolleyes:

Jack




  
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Jun 01, 2016 07:37 |  #101

This is hilarious, keep it up all involved!


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 01, 2016 12:43 |  #102

Scoobert wrote in post #18025166 (external link)
You have any links or proof of this "sideways/vendetta" against canon?

I would love to see it, or is it just your opinion and used to try and validate your view ?

I don't know about any vendetta, but I will say this, when the 1D3 was released, there was in fact a public falling out between DPR and Canon. It was unclear if the fault lay with Canon for changing the game for who and how one got early copies to review etc,. which was what DPReview was pretty much saying publicly, or if as in Canon's eyes, it was that Canon was less likely to play DPR as a favorite, forcing DPR to get copies along with everyone else.
Different views, no idea which if either is more valid.

At the time DPReview had recently established itself as THE top dog in digital camera reviews, but this was a fairly recent crown and less dominant than they are now. It is a crown they deserved, with the most consistently thorough reviews, easy to compare one vs. another etc. It was a popularity winning format, on the most consistently navigable website. ( Many of DPR's competitors/colleagues have since disappeared or become mush less relevant, Rob Galbraith, Steve's Digicams, Luminous Landscape, etc. as further evidence of DPRs dominance/popularity in the area)

I'm not sure how likely it would be to able to dig up the statements from DPR at the time of this falling out with Canon, but they did in fact speak publicly pretty strongly about how they felt, that DPR's opinion was Canon was doing a disservice to their customers by preventing DPR reviews from happening in a timely manner.

In fact, this falling out around the 1D3 specifically resulted in the FIRST time DPR was not able to field a timely review of a top their DSLR like the 1D series, indeed, long after the camera was available to all, DPR appeared to snub Canon and the 1D3 by refusing to review it for (nearly?) two years. Again, that was a first.


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skid00skid00
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Jun 01, 2016 13:20 |  #103

Scoobert wrote in post #18025166 (external link)
You have any links or proof of this "sideways/vendetta" against canon?

I would love to see it, or is it just your opinion and used to try and validate your view ?

It's a shame that you try to slant the issue, but it's so typical of the internet.

For the readers out there, DPR broke the embargo date for releasing news on a Canon camera. Canon had words with them. DPR decided to be petulant.

It's been *very* obvious to those with some intelligence that DPR has provided far less coverage, and far more negative, than it does for other mfrs.




  
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Jun 01, 2016 13:24 |  #104

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18025997 (external link)
I don't know about any vendetta, but I will say this, when the 1D3 was released, there was in fact a public falling out between DPR and Canon. It was unclear if the fault lay with Canon for changing the game for who and how one got early copies to review etc,. which was what DPReview was pretty much saying publicly, or if as in Canon's eyes, it was that Canon was less likely to play DPR as a favorite, forcing DPR to get copies along with everyone else.
Different views, no idea which if either is more valid...

I seem to remember that it was Dpreview's tough review of the focus issues the 1DIII (external link) was having. This was at the time Canon was trying to convince the planet that all was well and to not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.


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Jun 01, 2016 14:56 |  #105

gjl711 wrote in post #18026041 (external link)
I seem to remember that it was Dpreview's tough review of the focus issues the 1DIII (external link) was having. This was at the time Canon was trying to convince the planet that all was well and to not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.


No, the problems between DPR and Canon were publicly being hashed out before the 1D3 AF issue had been discovered. This falling out led to DPR from ever reviewing the 1D3.
As far as I know the first time DPR itself really discussed the 1D3 AF issue was in the review of the 1D4!
(I'm not talking about the forums or user reviews, but official DPR website)
Anything else official was just in the news section quoting R.G. articles etc.

The AF issues were well documented, but never by DPR. Their own choice to embargo the 1D3 meant that they were never part of the dissection and story.
The whole rob Galbraith dissection of the 1D3 focus issue was the breaking of that story, (as mentioned in the article you link to)
And given that DPR NEVER reviewed the 1D3, and that the fall out was before the 1D3 was in any ones hands to discover an AF issues, this can't be related to the fall out.

P.S. your link is going to "The Digital Picture" DPR never really even got into the 1D3 AF issue as by the time they release a full review, the hardware recall fix had taken place.


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Nikons new D500 vs the Canon 7DII
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