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Thread started 01 Jun 2016 (Wednesday) 11:28
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Dance Recitals and White Balance

 
werds
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Post edited over 3 years ago by werds.
     
Jun 01, 2016 11:28 |  #1

Have my daughters (plural) end of year dance recital again this weekend. In all previous dance events I have used AWB and adjusted in post, and it has been a bear when sometimes during the dance the white balance varied wildly and sometimes incorrectly...

So this year I am making the unfortunate mistake of trying to shoot with two cameras and two lenses... so I was debating setting the white balance at 3.2K for both of them to remove variability when processing in post... good idea? Bad idea? Better idea? One camera is full frame the other is crop body... but figure this way I can get more focal length at f/2.8... but am trying to reduce the amount of extra work in post if possible...

hoping to hear everyone elses thoughts and experience!


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PhotosGuy
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Jun 01, 2016 12:38 |  #2

Is there some reason that you can't use a Custom WB?


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werds
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Post edited over 3 years ago by werds.
     
Jun 01, 2016 13:11 |  #3

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18025994 (external link)
Is there some reason that you can't use a Custom WB?

Because I am too stupid to grasp that yet :P (No seriously - I don't own a grey card and wouldn't know how to get the K value in the field... I only know how to read the K value in post... I know how to set the K value in camera and that is about it for now... also don't own a light meter yet)

Well that and it is very unlikely that I will be afforded the opportunity to get up on the stage while the lighting crew gives me a specific lighting sequence, then the fact that this dance company uses a myriad of lights and backgrounds during their sets. Each dance can go from clean white light to spotlights in full blue or red, to sometimes dances that start dark with clear white spotlight and have 3 color shifts throughout... or a whole stage awash in a color gradient.

Then again I may be overthinking it - reason I posed this question here :)


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PhotosGuy
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Jun 01, 2016 13:53 |  #4

werds wrote in post #18026026 (external link)
I don't own a grey card and wouldn't know how to get the K value in the field.

You don't need a gray card. Taking a shot of white paper on the meter, which will make it gray, is close enough even if the paper has brighteners in it.
Gray Card…White Paper. What’s best?

.. also don't own a light meter yet)

Nikon didn't put one in your camera?

Well that and it is very unlikely that I will be afforded the opportunity to get up on the stage while the lighting crew gives me a specific lighting sequence, then the fact that this dance company uses a myriad of lights and backgrounds during their sets. Each dance can go from clean white light to spotlights in full blue or red, to sometimes dances that start dark with clear white spotlight and have 3 color shifts throughout... or a whole stage awash in a color gradient.

Well, there you're kind of screwed. OTOH, just suck it up & shoot the pretty colors that are there. ; )


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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werds
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Jun 01, 2016 16:26 |  #5

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18026069 (external link)
Nikon didn't put one in your camera?

Not sure if sarcasm or serious lol, if serious please enlighten me! I mean obviously I know it can do metering and the white balance I just don't know how to see the white balance information in real time without removing the raw files and opening it up in LR.


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Jun 01, 2016 16:34 |  #6

werds wrote in post #18026222 (external link)
Not sure if sarcasm or serious lol, if serious please enlighten me! I mean obviously I know it can do metering and the white balance I just don't know how to see the white balance information in real time without removing the raw files and opening it up in LR.

I don't know about Nikon. Why do you need to see the white balance information in real time? With Canon, you shoot for a gray image, choose CWB, & the camera uses it for every following image until you change the setting. Check your user manual.


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Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
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werds
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Jun 01, 2016 18:34 |  #7

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18026230 (external link)
I don't know about Nikon. Why do you need to see the white balance information in real time? With Canon, you shoot for a gray image, choose CWB, & the camera uses it for every following image until you change the setting. Check your user manual.


Aaah I see what you mean!


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Jun 02, 2016 02:09 |  #8

I set my K value to something really low making the picture kinda blue. Then I shoot mostly in AWB but switch to K when the lighting is really red so the K Value will compensate. At least this way you get two choices with only a quick switch from AWB to K value. Then when the lights get really blue (and stay that way for a while) you can dial it up really high like 8k-9k to help compensate for the over saturation in red lighting.

The problem is when the lights are all one color it takes a while to find the right K Value to compensate but they never stay that way very long. If there is a lot of white light or a lot of various colors at one time AWB works pretty good but with single colors it's not very good.


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Jun 03, 2016 20:22 |  #9

Firstly, I hope your daughters are doing solo's, because the shutter sound of a DSLR can be extremely distracting for both the performers and the audience (who may simply be using video, capturing every one of your shots audibly).

Secondly, ensure you have permission from the venue, I've never seen a dance recital of any significance allow spectators to take their own photos. They usually have their own photographer (me), and then you run into the whole issue of having photographs of other people's children on your memory card which some parents are not happy about. It's like photographing your kids at the playground; it's ok if you're using a point-and-shoot, but parents will get concerned if you bring a big DSLR and 70-200 lens.

But, back to your original question; usually the venue will use the same key lights for the performers throughout the recital, and only use additional lighting on the cyc (backdrop), or just occasionally on the dancers. Set your white balance to suit that key light and you should be fine. If not, Frank and BushWacker both have given you good advice.


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Jun 04, 2016 00:30 |  #10

Seeing WB prior at a live performance is a bad idea, how can you predict (or know) exactly what kelvin the lighting rig is gonna be at. Those lights swap and change all the time throughout a show. My advice, shoot RAW and tweak WB in post on a individual shot by shot basis.


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werds
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Jun 04, 2016 14:26 |  #11

98kellrs wrote in post #18028344 (external link)
Firstly, I hope your daughters are doing solo's, because the shutter sound of a DSLR can be extremely distracting for both the performers and the audience (who may simply be using video, capturing every one of your shots audibly).

Secondly, ensure you have permission from the venue, I've never seen a dance recital of any significance allow spectators to take their own photos. They usually have their own photographer (me), and then you run into the whole issue of having photographs of other people's children on your memory card which some parents are not happy about. It's like photographing your kids at the playground; it's ok if you're using a point-and-shoot, but parents will get concerned if you bring a big DSLR and 70-200 lens.

But, back to your original question; usually the venue will use the same key lights for the performers throughout the recital, and only use additional lighting on the cyc (backdrop), or just occasionally on the dancers. Set your white balance to suit that key light and you should be fine. If not, Frank and BushWacker both have given you good advice.

Thanks, only asked about the WB because I already have prior permission from the studio, I have actually been introduced all year as the studio photographer based on prior relationship with the studio so all the parents know me from that perspective and that any parental issue with the photography is to be addressed through the studio (the studio owner has worked with me in the education field for years before our daughter started in her studio and I have prior knowledge of dance and etiquette based on having done some dance myself, albeit in limited fashion). As to the parents and the whole taking pictures of children... I was accosted by several revelers at a renaissance festival last year because they thought I was taking pictures of random children... except the child in question was my daughter... apparently my skin color was not a close enough shade to my daughter... a comment that slipped from one of the people that accosted me rather coursely... so yea I get that aspect fairly well and do my best to avoid causing that stir, I spend lots of time in the studio introducing myself to both parents and the kids... actually the kids are usually disappointed when I don't show up with my camera at the studio during the year lol.

As to the shutter sound - I am generally about 5 or 6 rows behind all audience members, it is a large venue so I never have to worry about people hearing my shutter thankfully (they also tend to play the dance tracks at a pretty high volume as most of the numbers are using modern music)

BJWOK wrote in post #18028569 (external link)
Seeing WB prior at a live performance is a bad idea, how can you predict (or know) exactly what kelvin the lighting rig is gonna be at. Those lights swap and change all the time throughout a show. My advice, shoot RAW and tweak WB in post on a individual shot by shot basis.

BJWOK wrote in post #18028569 (external link)
Seeing WB prior at a live performance is a bad idea, how can you predict (or know) exactly what kelvin the lighting rig is gonna be at. Those lights swap and change all the time throughout a show. My advice, shoot RAW and tweak WB in post on a individual shot by shot basis.

I thought that at first but I still don't know if true or not since they run a full show rehearsal with the lights as if it was a show... not certain myself as to how much the temperature changes though. In the end I am going to stick with the basic advice of leave on AWB and just work on the shots in post... was hoping to find a way to reduce the work but oh well! Thanks for the thoughts and ideas everyone!


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Jun 04, 2016 14:33 |  #12

werds wrote in post #18029094 (external link)
In the end I am going to stick with the basic advice of leave on AWB...

BAD idea, IMO!


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Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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Jun 05, 2016 22:20 as a reply to  @ werds's post |  #13

Even with a fully rehearsed lighting show you will still see a rather large change in WB.

You made the correct choice to leave on AWB, shoot in RAW and tweak accordingly in post.

btw, my initial post should have said "Setting" no "Seeing" :)


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Jun 06, 2016 16:00 |  #14

Shoot AWB and tweak in post... for those shots that are just crazy screwed = black and white.

done.


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Jun 09, 2016 20:33 |  #15

Talley wrote in post #18031190 (external link)
Shoot AWB and tweak in post... for those shots that are just crazy screwed = black and white.

done.

Yep - and shoot raw. The costume and lighting changes make it near impossible to get it consistent anyway.




  
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