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Thread started 05 Jul 2016 (Tuesday) 16:06
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6D delay between focus lock and shutter release

 
bearkeithley
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Jul 05, 2016 16:06 |  #1

My brand new 6D is showing a strange issue that I have not seen in any of my other Canon DSLRs. More often than not, when I press the shutter button, the camera achieves focus, then hesitates, then releases the shutter.

The only camera I have to compare right now is my SL1, but my SL1 always releases the shutter right when focus is achieved.

Check out this video I used to compare the two. I have the AF beep on so you can hear the delays with the 6D and the lack of a delay on the SL1.

SL1 vs 6D (external link)

What do you all think?


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tongard
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Jul 08, 2016 01:59 |  #2

I think your canon 6d is operating just fine looking at your video. If it's affecting your photography stick it in A1 servo mode


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saea501
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Post edited over 3 years ago by saea501.
     
Jul 08, 2016 07:18 |  #3

It looks like you are just fully depressing the shutter release button and hoping the camera achieves focus before the shutter opens. As opposed to half press, focus lock confirm, then fully press. If it is the former, are many of your shots not properly focused? I always half press and wait the 3 or 4 milliseconds for focus confirm before releasing the shutter.

From your video it doesn't look or sound like there is any particular delay. The two camera certainly sound different but the 6D sound like mine when I fully press the release.


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apersson850
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Jul 08, 2016 09:22 |  #4

I agree. What you are seeing is the effect of pressing all the way down at one instance. Thus the camera has to focus, confirm focus and fire more or less from the same command.
You are comparing two low-spec cameras with different sensor sizes. The smaller sensor in the 100D implies that focusing is less critical and that the shutter/mirror design has less mass to move than in the 6D. High-spec full frame cameras, like the 1DX, are faster. But at a significant cost. According to available data, the shutter lag is similar between the two. Try with manual focus, or by first focusing, then take the picture, and compare the two then. That takes focusing out of the equation.


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Jul 08, 2016 10:20 as a reply to  @ apersson850's post |  #5

Have you tried setting up your camer for back button focus?


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apersson850
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Jul 08, 2016 10:33 |  #6

Not that it would have anything to do with this particular question, though. He could just as well focus in advance by half-press.


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absplastic
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Post edited over 3 years ago by absplastic. (2 edits in all)
     
Jul 08, 2016 14:58 |  #7

I suspect that something about your test target, its placement relative to the cameras, OR the camera's tolerances for AF accuracy with their respective lenses, is causing the 6D to make minute focus adjustments nearly every shot, whereas the SL1 locks once and is happy with the focus distance for each successive shot.

Whether or not the camera tries to refocus comes down to how well locked onto the target it is, i.e. how confident the camera is that it has the focus correct based on its own internal programming and AF sensitivity thresholds and AF sensor size (area). When the cameras are configured to require focus lock before releasing the shutter, and AF-start is bound to the shutter release button (as opposed to the * or other button for back-button focus), both cameras will take a measurement of the target using their phase-detect AF point that is selected (if you have one manually chosen**) every time you press the shutter button. The measurement internally comes up with an error value, which is essentially how far off of critical focus the camera thinks it is. If it's above some threshold value, the camera will try to refocus, otherwise it will release the shutter. With a flat planar target that is highly contrasted and well lit, and the camera on a tripod such that camera-to-target distance is not changing even slightly, the 6D should attempt to refocus less often. Just having the cameras on a table and not using a remote release is prone to focus changes, as is having a 3-dimensional focus target (if that headphone cord is the target, that's pretty much a worse-case scenario--so many different depths in such a small area).

**If either camera is trying to auto-select the best AF point each time, this will introduce another delay.


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bearkeithley
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Jul 09, 2016 02:21 |  #8

saea501 wrote in post #18061134 (external link)
It looks like you are just fully depressing the shutter release button and hoping the camera achieves focus before the shutter opens.

That is what I am doing because that is when I see the delay. When AF is turned on, the shutter will not release without locking focus first (signified by the beep). What I see is lagging is between the focus confirm beep and the release of the shutter. On the SL1, the beep and shutter release are instantaneous most of the time.

apersson850 wrote in post #18061204 (external link)
I agree. What you are seeing is the effect of pressing all the way down at one instance. Thus the camera has to focus, confirm focus and fire more or less from the same command.
You are comparing two low-spec cameras with different sensor sizes. The smaller sensor in the 100D implies that focusing is less critical and that the shutter/mirror design has less mass to move than in the 6D. High-spec full frame cameras, like the 1DX, are faster. But at a significant cost. According to available data, the shutter lag is similar between the two. Try with manual focus, or by first focusing, then take the picture, and compare the two then. That takes focusing out of the equation.

Same as above. I’m not worried about the time it takes to achieve focus, I’m seeing a delay between focus achieved and release of shutter. My SL1 goes (focus beep)->(shutter release) while the 6D seems to go (focus beep) -> (short pause) -> (release shutter).

absplastic wrote in post #18061472 (external link)
I suspect that something about your test target, its placement relative to the cameras, OR the camera's tolerances for AF accuracy with their respective lenses, is causing the 6D to make minute focus adjustments nearly every shot, whereas the SL1 locks once and is happy with the focus distance for each successive shot.

Whether or not the camera tries to refocus comes down to how well locked onto the target it is, i.e. how confident the camera is that it has the focus correct based on its own internal programming and AF sensitivity thresholds and AF sensor size (area). When the cameras are configured to require focus lock before releasing the shutter, and AF-start is bound to the shutter release button (as opposed to the * or other button for back-button focus), both cameras will take a measurement of the target using their phase-detect AF point that is selected (if you have one manually chosen**) every time you press the shutter button. The measurement internally comes up with an error value, which is essentially how far off of critical focus the camera thinks it is. If it's above some threshold value, the camera will try to refocus, otherwise it will release the shutter. With a flat planar target that is highly contrasted and well lit, and the camera on a tripod such that camera-to-target distance is not changing even slightly, the 6D should attempt to refocus less often. Just having the cameras on a table and not using a remote release is prone to focus changes, as is having a 3-dimensional focus target (if that headphone cord is the target, that's pretty much a worse-case scenario--so many different depths in such a small area).

**If either camera is trying to auto-select the best AF point each time, this will introduce another delay.

But the delay is AFTER the focus has been achieved. Would the camera try to refocus after the focus lock (and beep) and before actually releasing the shutter? That wouldn’t make sense.


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absplastic
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Jul 09, 2016 02:51 |  #9

bearkeithley wrote in post #18061856 (external link)
But the delay is AFTER the focus has been achieved. Would the camera try to refocus after the focus lock (and beep) and before actually releasing the shutter? That wouldn’t make sense.

Do you by chance have the AF lock visual confirmation on? This is a custom function that flashes the AF point that locks twice in red in the viewfinder, but at the cost of a noticeable delay to the shutter release, like you're seeing. You turn it off with a custom function called "superimposed display" CfII #8. I think most people turn this off on day 1 of ownership and forget it exists. Most of us turn off the beep too :-)


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Bassat
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Jul 09, 2016 07:22 |  #10
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absplastic wrote in post #18061863 (external link)
Do you by chance have the AF lock visual confirmation on? This is a custom function that flashes the AF point that locks twice in red in the viewfinder, but at the cost of a noticeable delay to the shutter release, like you're seeing. You turn it off with a custom function called "superimposed display" CfII #8. I think most people turn this off on day 1 of ownership and forget it exists. Most of us turn off the beep too :-)

I have never noticed a delay between beep and release on ANY of my Canon camera. I currently use a 6D (OP's camera) and a 1DIV. Turning on (or off) the 'AF visual lock confirmation' has no effect on the beep/release timing, on either camera.

My guess is most people don't shut off either the red flash, or the beep. The help me to know which focus point I am using, and whether or not the camera is in AI-Servo.




  
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absplastic
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Jul 09, 2016 10:50 |  #11

Bassat wrote in post #18061952 (external link)
I have never noticed a delay between beep and release on ANY of my Canon camera. I currently use a 6D (OP's camera) and a 1DIV. Turning on (or off) the 'AF visual lock confirmation' has no effect on the beep/release timing, on either camera.

My guess is most people don't shut off either the red flash, or the beep. The help me to know which focus point I am using, and whether or not the camera is in AI-Servo.

I turned on the red AF point flash on my 6D right now, and with the firmware version I have, and in One Shot AF mode with a manually-selected AF point, it does not release the shutter until after the AF point blinks twice, even when not refocusing. It adds a very noticeable delay, a couple hundred milliseconds, as compared to the near instant shutter release with the feature disabled.


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Bassat
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Jul 09, 2016 11:00 |  #12
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absplastic wrote in post #18062119 (external link)
I turned on the red AF point flash on my 6D right now, and with the firmware version I have, and in One Shot AF mode with a manually-selected AF point, it does not release the shutter until after the AF point blinks twice, even when not refocusing. It adds a very noticeable delay, a couple hundred milliseconds, as compared to the near instant shutter release with the feature disabled.

Well, I learned something new, again, on POTN.

You are indeed correct, sir. I have FW 1.1.6, and my 6D actually DOES behave the same way. I never noticed it because I shoot BBF, and the AF and shutter release are two different actions/buttons. In AI-Servo, it is irrelevant; the focus-confirm red flash is disabled. To confirm: the shutter releases noticeably quicker with the red flashing AF confirmation turned OFF, in One-Shot mode. Whoodathunkit?

Now I have re-evaluate my settings and determine if this affects the way I shoot. Thanks. :)

EDIT:
I suppose I just HAVE to test my 1DIV now, also!




  
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absplastic
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Jul 09, 2016 11:48 |  #13

Bassat wrote in post #18062130 (external link)
I suppose I just HAVE to test my 1DIV now, also!

I think it's a quirk of the 6D. On my other Canon cameras, if I mash the shutter button all the way, they don't wait for the red flash to release, even if that feature is enabled.

I suspect this "feature" is why when the 6D came out, there were so many users complaining about it having "horrible shutter lag" and people saying it feels so much less responsive than a 5DmkIII, when the tech specs indicate that both cameras have only 59ms actual shutter lag. It would be nice if Canon fixed this, so that people who like the visual confirmation don't have to suffer the delay.


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Jul 09, 2016 12:03 |  #14

what lenses are on each camera?

i can't hear the beep in your video, but it looks like they are both operating fine.


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Bassat
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Jul 09, 2016 12:19 |  #15
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absplastic wrote in post #18062179 (external link)
I think it's a quirk of the 6D. On my other Canon cameras, if I mash the shutter button all the way, they don't wait for the red flash to release, even if that feature is enabled.

I suspect this "feature" is why when the 6D came out, there were so many users complaining about it having "horrible shutter lag" and people saying it feels so much less responsive than a 5DmkIII, when the tech specs indicate that both cameras have only 59ms actual shutter lag. It would be nice if Canon fixed this, so that people who like the visual confirmation don't have to suffer the delay.

And those of us using BBAF will/would never notice it. Strange, indeed.




  
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