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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 04 Nov 2015 (Wednesday) 16:31
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Godox TTL AD360II and X1

 
swldstn
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Aug 03, 2016 12:01 |  #481

So my Flashpoint Streaklight 360 TTL for Canon (Godox AD360II-C) showed up today along with the Phottix Laso Receiver and I've encountered some difficulty maybe someone can help me out with. Goal here is to use the Canon RT system with the AD360II-C.
Also tried my YNE3-RX on the 360 with no success. It paired fine with my ST-E3-RT but like others here it never fired the flash.

Mounted the Laso to the 360 and configured it for the CH2, Group C, ID to match my Canon ST-E3-RT and immediately got the Laso to pair with my ST-E3-RT without any difficulty. I put the 360 in manual mode but no mater how adjust the power level on the ST-E3-RT there is no change on the 360. What mode do I place the 360 in so it gets info through the Laso to set the power level? Would that be ETTL even though the ST-E3-RT has group C set to manual at say 1/64 or 1/8 power?

I want the group setting on the ST-E3-RT to be inherited by the 360. I really only remote power control of the 360 via the ST-E3-RT combined with the Laso but would like all mode to be set by the ST-E3-RT. I'm specifically not using the 360's radio link with slave mode since I know that only works with the Godox transmitters.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Steve

p.s. My X1T-C hasn't shown up yet but I tested the 360 with my X1T-S and it worked great. Really nice to have a light that can work with both my Canon and Sony systems. Also plan to use the AD360II-C paired with my Sony system and the X1T-S and TT685C. Have an older CL-180 which has a new XTR-16.


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swldstn
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Aug 03, 2016 16:28 |  #482

Figured out my problem. Found the manual to the Laso receiver on line. There was not one in the box. You have to put the AD360 on ETTL mode and then it appears to work. But this led me to another discovery. I couldn't get the YNE3-RX to work with the AD3600II-C so I wanted to understand why it worked fine with my 430EX II so I compared it to the Laso as well.

Comparing the Laso RX to the YNE3-RT using my 430EX II I found they do not work in the same way.
The Laso relies on using ETTL mode to do remote power setting on the 430 EX II like it does on the AD3600II-C.
The YNEX-RX uses the same commands as the camera speedlight function commands it to do to switch the 430EX II modes from ETTL to Manual. So when you change the ST-E3-RT from ETTL to M for the group the flash also changes modes back and forth. So its my belief the the YNE3-RT is more faithful to the Canon standard and that gives the AD360II-C problems. Not sure why though. I risked putting the AD3600II-C in my 5DIII hot shoe and it appears to understand the camera speedlight function menu as well Maybe there is some difference between how the camera does it and the YNE3-RX does it that has no impact on the 430EX II but does on the AD3600II-C

The Laso appears to work like the Cactus V6 receiver did when it was doing remote power. It just used ETTL mode and lied to the flash about what the camera was telling it. It just passed on manual power as a ETTL power level since in speedlights this is typical really just a flash duration and not a real change in power level I believe. In one case the camera is turning off the flash when it achieve the poper exposure and in the second case the transmitter is deciding when to turn of the flash based on the power level chosen.

So I don't know if that means YongNuo can fix this or in reality would they want to since it appears they implement what works best with Canon speedlights and probably their older non-radio speedlights as well.

Steve W


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agv8or
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Aug 04, 2016 02:59 |  #483

swldstn wrote in post #18085689 (external link)
Figured out my problem. Found the manual to the Laso receiver on line. There was not one in the box. You have to put the AD360 on ETTL mode and then it appears to work. But this led me to another discovery. I couldn't get the YNE3-RX to work with the AD3600II-C so I wanted to understand why it worked fine with my 430EX II so I compared it to the Laso as well.

Comparing the Laso RX to the YNE3-RT using my 430EX II I found they do not work in the same way.
The Laso relies on using ETTL mode to do remote power setting on the 430 EX II like it does on the AD3600II-C.
The YNEX-RX uses the same commands as the camera speedlight function commands it to do to switch the 430EX II modes from ETTL to Manual. So when you change the ST-E3-RT from ETTL to M for the group the flash also changes modes back and forth. So its my belief the the YNE3-RT is more faithful to the Canon standard and that gives the AD360II-C problems. Not sure why though. I risked putting the AD3600II-C in my 5DIII hot shoe and it appears to understand the camera speedlight function menu as well Maybe there is some difference between how the camera does it and the YNE3-RX does it that has no impact on the 430EX II but does on the AD3600II-C

The Laso appears to work like the Cactus V6 receiver did when it was doing remote power. It just used ETTL mode and lied to the flash about what the camera was telling it. It just passed on manual power as a ETTL power level since in speedlights this is typical really just a flash duration and not a real change in power level I believe. In one case the camera is turning off the flash when it achieve the poper exposure and in the second case the transmitter is deciding when to turn of the flash based on the power level chosen.

So I don't know if that means YongNuo can fix this or in reality would they want to since it appears they implement what works best with Canon speedlights and probably their older non-radio speedlights as well.

Steve W

As I explained earlier in this thread you have two third party manufacturers (Godox and Yongnuo) that are reverse engineering Canon protocols. Getting them to work with Canon equipment is a challenge but expecting them to work with each other would be lucky indeed. Neither Yongnuo or Godox cares whether their equipment works with the other as long as it works with the Canon Speedlites so, it is a pipe dream to expect other wise and I doubt either of them will lose any sleep in trying to do so.

Just do what I did and throw all your Yongnuo stuff in the trash and move forward with Canon and Godox using the Phottix Laso to integrate the AD360II into the Canon Wireless RT system until such time that Godox decides to build a more suitable Speedlite than what they are currently offering.


Rand

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swldstn
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Aug 10, 2016 21:23 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #484

I think you missed my point. Forget the Godox completely.

Just comparing the Laso to the YNE3-RX with a 430EX II. The YN changes the flash mode when the ST-E3-RT changes the GRoups mode. The YN and 430 work just like the 600EX-RT does where the mode is GR mode is reflected on the slave.

The Laso never changes the the 430EX II mode when the ST-E3-RT changes the Group Mode. It leaves the flash in TTL mode at all time.

With the YNE3-RT you can see the power level being set on the 430EX II when its being requested to be manual. With the Laso you can not see this because it must be put on ETTL mode. You think the Laso, trying to be compatible with the Canon would do the same.

I guess if I where only using Canon, non-radio flashes I would recommend the YNE3-RX to someone and save the money over the Laso. I wouldn't trash it.

For Godox flashes you have to use the more expensive Laso.


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agv8or
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Post edited over 2 years ago by agv8or.
     
Aug 10, 2016 23:14 |  #485

swldstn wrote in post #18092263 (external link)
I think you missed my point. Forget the Godox completely.

Just comparing the Laso to the YNE3-RX with a 430EX II. The YN changes the flash mode when the ST-E3-RT changes the GRoups mode. The YN and 430 work just like the 600EX-RT does where the mode is GR mode is reflected on the slave.

The Laso never changes the the 430EX II mode when the ST-E3-RT changes the Group Mode. It leaves the flash in TTL mode at all time.

With the YNE3-RT you can see the power level being set on the 430EX II when its being requested to be manual. With the Laso you can not see this because it must be put on ETTL mode. You think the Laso, trying to be compatible with the Canon would do the same.

I guess if I where only using Canon, non-radio flashes I would recommend the YNE3-RX to someone and save the money over the Laso. I wouldn't trash it.

For Godox flashes you have to use the more expensive Laso.

I guess I am confused because I thought you were asking a question rather than making a point. Kind of hard to forget Godox completely in a Godox thread.

Whether an "off camera" flash has to be set to ETTL to work with a particular radio receiver or whether the receiver changes the flash modes of the flash, as the modes change in the transmitter, is irrelevant to me as long as the system works. The Yongnuo YNE3-RX receiver does not work with the AD360IIc, and the YN-E3-RT and YN600EX-RT transmitters do not work with the Phottix Laso receiver so in respect to using them in an integrated Canon Wireless RT controlled setup, using Godox TTL flash units, the Yongnuo products are totally worthless.

So short answer is that if you want to incorporate Godox's new TTL Canon compatible flashes into the Canon Wireless RT system you will need to use the Phottix Laso receiver with either the Canon ST-E3-RT or 600EX-RT as transmitters. I have found this is the setup that works if you want to integrate the Godox AD360IIc into the Canon Wireless RT system.

If you want to incorporate your 430EX II into the Canon Wireless RT system and forget Godox completely then the Yongnuo YNE3-RX, YN-E3-RT and YN600EX-RT will work just fine. I have some for sale, let me just go dig them out of the trash. :-)


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swldstn
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Aug 11, 2016 17:08 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #486

agv8or,

:-) Your points are very well made. I did by the Laso based on your recommendation specifically to use my new AD360II-C with my ST-E3-RT. And for that its working quite well and I think you.

Just was using the comparison of the Laso and the YNE3-RT on the 430EX to see if I could understand why the YNE3-RX fails on the AD360II-C. I thought it might be because the Godox was faithful to the Canon flash control protocol and it still might be. Not much you can do about unless Canon actually came out with its own YNE3-RT or Laso equivalent and it still didn't work. The other issue maybe YNE3-RT may not do exactly what a Canon version camera does which may be validated by the fact that the camera control does appear to work just fine on the Godox.

Any way I've got a working solution with the Laso/AD360II-C solution. Even though I could switch to a Godox X1T-C as a trigger and replace the 600EX-RTs with TT685-C or V860II-C and save some money I plan to stick with the Canon Radio System for now.

So now I'll save up for a second AD360 but I guess I will have to get a TTL version if I want to use it with a Laso.

Steve W.


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Aug 11, 2016 17:56 |  #487

swldstn wrote in post #18092998 (external link)
agv8or,

:-) Your points are very well made. I did by the Laso based on your recommendation specifically to use my new AD360II-C with my ST-E3-RT. And for that its working quite well and I think you.

Just was using the comparison of the Laso and the YNE3-RT on the 430EX to see if I could understand why the YNE3-RX fails on the AD360II-C. I thought it might be because the Godox was faithful to the Canon flash control protocol and it still might be. Not much you can do about unless Canon actually came out with its own YNE3-RT or Laso equivalent and it still didn't work. The other issue maybe YNE3-RT may not do exactly what a Canon version camera does which may be validated by the fact that the camera control does appear to work just fine on the Godox.

Any way I've got a working solution with the Laso/AD360II-C solution. Even though I could switch to a Godox X1T-C as a trigger and replace the 600EX-RTs with TT685-C or V860II-C and save some money I plan to stick with the Canon Radio System for now.

So now I'll save up for a second AD360 but I guess I will have to get a TTL version if I want to use it with a Laso.

Steve W.

The Canon Wireless RT system is a great system and adding the AD360IIc into the mix makes a great system even better. It is too bad that the Yongnuo components will not work. I guess we're lucky that the Laso receivers work. My hope is that Godox will eventually produce a shoe flash worthy to be used as an "on camera" flash. There is a use for the Yongnuo YNE3-RX receivers which can be used to integrate the AD600's into the Wireless RT system. Of course this would be triggering only with the AD600 in Manual mode while the flash output is adjusted with an XT16 transmitter.


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Aug 11, 2016 18:24 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #488

agv8or,

Thanks. I have given some thought to getting a AD600 next but integrating it in to the Wireless RT system seems more problematic if you wanted HSS. In that case I had considered buying a X1R-C to use with one of my 600EX-RT (in non-radio mode) and then use the X1T-C I also bought to fire the 600, 360, and a 180 I have if I needed it. In that case I would end up relying on the Godox radio system. Its not a bad trade-off I thought since I bought the X1T-C already and adding a X1R-C is not that much. That way I get remote power for everything with the one X1T-C.

Steve W


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Aug 11, 2016 22:49 as a reply to  @ swldstn's post |  #489

Definitely the X system (X1T-C) is the way to go if using the AD600. The AD360IIc works equally well with either the X system or the Canon Wireless RT system. I personally do not see a situation where I would use the AD600 with the Canon Wireless system but I threw out using the YNE3-RX with the AD600 if someone was so inclined and already had made that investment. As I have said many times, I would love to have just one system, and the AD600 and AD360II (and X1T) are awesome but the TT685 and V860II are not a replacement for the Canon 600EX-RT, especially as an "on camera" flash. That is not the Canon fan boy in me speaking, although I am very partial to my Canon Speedlites. I could share that same love for Godox Speedlites but Godox needs to make some serious changes especially in regards to the way the flash head swivels and tilts for starters. For "off camera" use the Godox Speedlites work fine and hopefully the E1 issues with the earlier version of the TT685 have been fixed.


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Aug 12, 2016 05:56 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #490

agv8or,

Good to know about the Godox TT685 and V860II although I did buy on TT685S to tryout use with my Sony A7RII since Sony's flashes also leave a lot to be desired in some ways. Haven't used it much but I did notice a lag also when using it with a Vello off camera flash cord that I don't see with my Canon Speedlights and Canon bodies. It may be my set up on the camera or the flash. Not sure yet.

I also love my Canon 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT system. Have 3 of the 600EX-RT. Too bad the Godox speedlights are not of the same class just yet. I'm not familiar with the E1 issues though. Can you point me to where this might be discussed.

Most of the time when I'm using on camera flash I'm really using either a RRS Wedding bracket or a Custom Brackets flash bracket and a off-camera flash cord that supports ETTL. Along with a rogue modifier. Gives me much better quality light.

Steve W


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Aug 12, 2016 09:17 as a reply to  @ swldstn's post |  #491

For Sony users the Godox Speedlites are probably a better option than any other offerings especially when you consider the Godox X system on a whole.

The E1 error is an IGBT failure issue in early TT685 versions and then only in the Canon version as I have not heard of any failures in the Sony or Nikon versions. There have been several redesigns of the main circuit board (in the Canon version that I know of) and I would hope by now that issue has been resolved. I do not have any of the newer versions of the TT685 to open up and compare to the older versions I have. I have not had any issues with any of my personal Godox Speedlites, 2 of which are older versions of the TT685 as well as some TT600's, TT850's and V860IIc's. I do know of a forum member that has had 2 TT685's fail (both older Canon versions) and two Amazon returned Canon TT685's that I have tested for a Chinese vendor have had the E1 error but, I have no way of knowing how old the units are. Other Canon and Sony units that I have tested for them have all checked out in perfect working order but, here again I do not know the dates of manufacturer for these units. I guess I could try to figure it out or ask but right now I do not have any plans to buy anymore Godox Speedlites until they at least redesign the flash head swivel and tilt.


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Aug 14, 2016 06:40 as a reply to  @ agv8or's post |  #492

Thanks so much for all the info on the Godox system. There is one last thing I plan to try. A while back I found I could fire my 600Ex-RT with my YN-E3-RT from my Sony A7RII and get remote manual power control. I put the transmitter in "legacy" mode so it would avoid the Sony TTL signals. Used on my Fuji with success as well. Now if it I'll trigger the Laso RX that would be icing on the cake. Then my Wireless RT system could be used to fire the AD360 /Laso combo.


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Post edited over 2 years ago by agv8or. (3 edits in all)
     
Aug 14, 2016 10:37 |  #493

swldstn wrote in post #18095059 (external link)
Thanks so much for all the info on the Godox system. There is one last thing I plan to try. A while back I found I could fire my 600Ex-RT with my YN-E3-RT from my Sony A7RII and get remote manual power control. I put the transmitter in "legacy" mode so it would avoid the Sony TTL signals. Used on my Fuji with success as well. Now if it I'll trigger the Laso RX that would be icing on the cake. Then my Wireless RT system could be used to fire the AD360 /Laso combo.

The problem is that the YN-E3-RT will not link with the Laso receiver unless it is linked second after a Canon transmitter links first. Then you can shut off the Canon transmitter and continue with the Yongnuo (I referred to this as 'jump starting" the Yongnuo transmitters). Legacy mode has nothing to do with how the YN-E3 links only in that it is not using TTL communication with the camera. The YN-E3 still has to link to communicate with the Laso receiver which is where the issue is not in how it communicates after it is linked.


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Aug 14, 2016 12:38 |  #494

agv8or wrote in post #18095208 (external link)
The problem is that the YN-E3-RT will not link with the Laso receiver unless it is linked second after a Canon transmitter links first. Then you can shut off the Canon transmitter and continue with the Yongnuo (I referred to this as 'jump starting" the Yongnuo transmitters). Legacy mode has nothing to do with how the YN-E3 links only in that it is not using TTL communication with the camera. The YN-E3 still has to link to communicate with the Laso receiver which is where the issue is not in how it communicates after it is linked.

That's a bummer. I guess I won't be using the Wireless RT system with the YN-E3 and Laso then.


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Post edited over 2 years ago by papilio.
     
Sep 02, 2016 17:15 |  #495

I hope that this is the most appropriate thread for this, otherwise moderators please feel free to move it.

Yesterday I received the CL-360XN with the Sony X1T-S transmitter from Cheetahstand to replace my manual Flashpoint 360. Two issues on which I beg your help if I may ...

The first is surely a settings conflict, the flash fires but I'm getting a totally dark exposure. Though as far as I can tell everything is set to TTL on both flash and transmitter I'm not seeing a pre-flash, so my initial guess would be that it's dumping its load when it should be sending out the pre-flash ... ? (The Sony a7II is set to fill-flash, not wireless)

The second issue is the close-distance problem. I have current firmware on both units (CL-360XN has v.2.5, X1T-S has v.14), but I can't get to the close distance option by holding the TEST button down while turning on the transmitter until after the two Status flashes as explained.

I work almost exclusively with macro, so in requiring the diffuser to be positioned right down at the end of the lens barrel, the flash body (mounted at the end of a Zacuto arm) ends up right next to the transmitter. So if I can't resolve this, sadly it would be a complete deal-breaker as far as TTL Godox is concerned.

One very curious thing though, I had recently ordered the Godox TT685S from Amazon (returned it for a different reason). AFAIK it uses the same transmitter but I did not experience the close distance problem with it! :/

TIA!


Michael




  
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Godox TTL AD360II and X1
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