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Thread started 08 Aug 2016 (Monday) 13:00
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So my wife no longer wants the 80D

 
Charlie
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Aug 12, 2016 18:08 |  #31

What was wrong with the SL1? other than that t5i or whatever iteration + sigma 17-50 f2.8.

There isnt a whole lot of options in canon land. I do get her reasoning, one time in my life, that would be my goto system, a simple 2.8 crop + built in flash, call it good enough.


Sony A7siii/A7iii/ZV-1 - FE 24/1.4 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 - 28-200 RXD
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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX. (3 edits in all)
     
Aug 12, 2016 18:12 |  #32

Hrm,

Has she tried an EOS-M with the 90EX onboard? It's still small, but has a much more reasonable flash. The flash output on the M3 is a joke honestly, all pop up flashes are really not worth having, but that's just my opinion I suppose (and fully aware that the 90EX's output is about the same as a standard popup on larger bodies).

I still use and keep an EOS-M (first gen) with a 22 F2. The EOS-M can focus quickly, but the 22 F2 cannot. That's the issue. The moment you put a faster focusing lens on there, it's pretty fast. I tried it with my 35 F2 IS and 85 F1.8 and it was very fast, did a fine job. Just was "big" of course.

Unfortunately if your wife wants compact and wide aperture, there's not a lot of options without getting a bridge basically, or looking into M43's cameras. Trying to get those features on an APS-C sized sensor is going to require big glass, due to sensor size. So you will always hit the wall with this one. You may get a small body and the right features (wifi, flash, etc), but then end up having to have a big bulky lens to get F2.8 (this would be how Sony ends up). But again, if you're trying to get fast aperture on a larger sensor, it will be a larger piece of glass. So you either need to get a smaller sensor, or slower glass.

I just tested the EOS-M (1) with the EF-M -> EF adapter and a cheap EF-S 18-55 STM, and it focuses fast, much faster than the 22 F2. But, it's hardly compact, since the lens has size, the adapter adds to it, but you keep a small body, if that matters. I'm not sure which STM motor version is in the EF-M 18-55, but the EF-S 18-55 STM focuses quite fast, and dead silent, it's nice actually. So if the EF-M 18-55 has that same motor and is also fast and silent, it would be a fine option, just not F2.8.

I think the M series would be fast enough for general stuff, if they would release the 22 F2 STM with a faster focusing version motor. Right now, the 22 F2 STM is slow to focus, just like the 40 F2.8 STM and 50 F1.8 STM. All three of those are kind of slow, you can totally hear them, etc. But, when you listen to the 18-55 STM, 55-250 STM, etc, they are very fast to focus and completely silent. Definitely some differences in the STM motors in various lenses.

But it is clear to me that the slow down point of the M series with the 22 F2 is the 22 F2 itself. The M focuses plenty fast. The limitation is more the lens you're using.

So, next step, if the above doesn't have anything in it that rings as an option, either go with Fuji, or look at a M43 camera body and lenses. The GH4 for example and a fast zoom. Small, fast, and even weather sealed. GH4 with a 12-35 F2.8 would be great, it's costly, but great. And again, here we are hitting that wall with F2.8 requiring big glass. But the 12-35 F2.8 is the equivalent of a 24-70 F2.8 on full frame. So it's a compact version (if that can be said) of that, all weather sealed, fast, 4K capable, flash, etc. It's about the size of the SL1. So it's still small.

Very best,


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AlanU
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Aug 12, 2016 19:09 |  #33

Perfect opportunity to buy a Fuji X-T2 (when it hits the street) for yourself. You can let your wife borrow it.

Small, fast AF, 4k video, Mirrorless so outer focus points will be reliable. The 18-55 kit lens will be an inexpensive lens on par with the IQ you'd see with a Canon crop sensor with 24-70L f/2.8mk1 or 24-105L.

I'm a Canon FF user and the X-T2 is freakishly impressive specs wise and IQ is very pleasing to my eyes compared to Canon crop sensors bodies with no micro adjust AF. I want to buy the 80D for video applications. As for the Canon crop world the 80D will only be the option for me for that purpose only. Canon Mirror bodies with no AF adjustments is a complete deal breaker for me now.

For the majority of my casual shooting which is slow or static I appreciate the high iso capabilities of my 16mpx generation fuji bodies over Canon's latest mirrorless crop sensor body. AF wise I'm tolerating the pigish 16mpx body AF capabilities but it's acceptable in most cases.

If your wife shoots in good light majority of the time even the newer M43 bodies will perform well with the large selection of lenses. However my 16mpx fuji's have worked much better for me in my casual low light no flash photography though.....I sold off majority of my m43 gear due to high iso limitations.

Buy yourself a new camera ;)

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=vUPxVYAnz_E (external link)

Video sounds like it's a winner for a fuji finally........

Small clipon hotshoe flash which is just as useless as any onboard flash LOL!!!


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jrscls
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Aug 12, 2016 19:25 |  #34

My wife likes our Sony RX100 IV, which you might want to consider as a small camera, pretty good IQ, fast lens and built in flash with bounce capability, no lenses to buy.


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Talley
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Aug 12, 2016 21:07 |  #35

NO problem going to 4/3 at all... long as it has the stupid on board flash. This also rules out the XT-2. The Sony RX100III is an idea that I have because I do know it focuses fast

Mal,

She did have an 90EX flash w/ her M the first go round but didn't like having to put it on/off even though I found it to be painless.


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MalVeauX
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Aug 12, 2016 21:26 |  #36

Hrm,

Olympus OM-D E-M10 (only $400 new, so you can find it lower used). Pop-up flash included, sensor-shift image stabilization included. Olympus has a 12-40 F2.8 lens (same as 24-80 on full frame), but it's a big lens for the format. If you want small, look at the ED 14-42 3.5~5.6, it's like having a 28-84, but pancake size, and it's not expensive either, pretty nice. Or, for a basic "do all" prime, the 25mm F1.8 would be good (same as a 50mm F1.8 on full frame), or as an alternative, the 17mm F1.8 (34mm F1.8 full frame equiv).

Look at the size and ability of the OM-D E-M10 with the ED 14-42 EZ pancake zoom.

The Pen-F would be awesome, but no pop-up flash.

Very best,


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Talley
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Aug 12, 2016 21:39 |  #37

Thank you all and Mal,

Gives me lots to think about. The Sony A6300 seems like a nice way to go... albeit more expensive. The M10 looks great... will research that too


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MalVeauX
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Aug 12, 2016 21:45 |  #38

Talley wrote in post #18094061 (external link)
The M10 looks great... will research that too

Example of size of lens on body, overall size, AF speed, etc.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=A6VNOwCiXdg (external link)

Very best,


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AlanU
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Aug 12, 2016 21:53 |  #39

If your looking into the Micro 4/3 world the large Pansonic G7 is like a Canon SL1. The difference is the G7 shoots 4k video, Panasonic proprietary DFD focus system. It can be use like a camcorder with minor hunting. The 80D Dual pixel technology is hard to beat. I'd prefer Panasonic DFD AF system over majority of Olympus contrast AF but that's just me.

I'd be confident to say that if your wife is critical on IQ she will miss the 80D in focus and good IQ. The 80D will land the shots every time!

Things to think about is the cost of lenses. If you want great IQ you must climb the ladder in the Sony line. sony/canon adapters are not an option for smaller lighter camera systems. Larger higher end Sony lenses will add substantial weight. To my eyes a fuji 18-55 kit lens produces better IQ over a slower variable aperture sony kit lens. However the Sony A6300/A6000 would be much better in low light compared to Micro 4/3 system IMO.

The zinger....M43 has a huge variety of lenses from cheap fast primes to $$ "pro" f/2.8 zooms (granted smaller sensor so less bokeh vs crop/ff sensors. The relatively new panasonic gx85 with 12-32 kit lens is 800 bucks. Has the fast DFD AF system.

TBH I think there's a calling for a Sony RX100 mk3 or 4 and call it a day. My wife has shot my Fuji kit and without a doubt it surpasses any point and shoot. FYI both XE2 and XT10 has an onboard flash and the XE2 you can move the flash so you can bounce the flash.

You never indicated if Video is a criteria.

It all comes down to your wife's standards in IQ. Challenging light???? Sony A6000/6300 or fuji is a no brainer. Sony RX100 series is the next in line.....


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Talley
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Aug 15, 2016 00:05 |  #40

I wonder about the Fuji X-E2s w/ 18-55 2.8-4 lens.

hmm... this could be my way into the fuji system while keeping her a small camera like she wants.


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AlanU
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Aug 15, 2016 01:07 |  #41

Talley wrote in post #18095759 (external link)
I wonder about the Fuji X-E2s w/ 18-55 2.8-4 lens.

hmm... this could be my way into the fuji system while keeping her a small camera like she wants.


Hunt hard for a New old stock X-E2. Install the new 4.01 firmware and you virtually get the X-E2S for alot less money!! I just picked up a brand new X-E2/w 18-55 kit lens for $750 CDN for my co worker. I bought a new X-E2 for $380. Couple days later I bought another X-E2 body for another co worker. I cleaned out the shops "old stock".

Get the 27mm f/2.8 pancake and you have a 40mm equivalent tiny package that is silly light weight. The IQ I get out of that lens is extraordinary....even though my shooting style doesn't jive with 40mm.

For my casual system I now own a 16mm f/1.4, 27mm f/2.8, 18-55 and 55-200mm. It covers almost everything I want for casual stuff. Now that Fuji is coming out with an Hss/TTL flash I can utilize the fuji system in more photographic situations.

Also I'll be picking up some Cactus v.6 ii

http://www.cactus-image.com/v6ii.html (external link)

I will never sell my Canon....... but fuji is getting scary good!!


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Aug 15, 2016 02:25 |  #42

Talley wrote in post #18095759 (external link)
I wonder about the Fuji X-E2s w/ 18-55 2.8-4 lens.

hmm... this could be my way into the fuji system while keeping her a small camera like she wants.

Do that. But I predict it won't last long before you get your own Fuji, or else risk the marital harmony. ;-)a

I know you said your wife prefers Canon for its familiarity, but the Fuji controls and menus are very intuitive. You can re-assign the functions of all the buttons on the body. On a side note, I resent that on the M series Canon only offers an EVF as a hot shoe-mount accessory. It's one indicator that even Canon doesn't take the system seriously (yet).

AlanU wrote in post #18095790 (external link)
Get the 27mm f/2.8 pancake and you have a 40mm equivalent tiny package that is silly light weight. The IQ I get out of that lens is extraordinary....even though my shooting style doesn't jive with 40mm.

I wonder if the 35 f/2 and coming 23 f/2 will put downward pressure on the price of the 27 (i.e., a permanent rebate price). The 35 f/2 may not be a pancake, but it's hardly obtrusive. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot the 16 f/1.4. The 23mm f/1.4 suits me better, and the quality stuns me.


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Aug 15, 2016 06:44 |  #43

My wife would love to have focus accuracy over speed. Even static shots there will be on occasional miss with her but I attribute that to the Sigma 17-50 more than anything IMHO.

Fuji is accurate for static "look at mom and smile" type shots I hope.


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Aug 15, 2016 07:39 |  #44

Talley wrote in post #18095910 (external link)
My wife would love to have focus accuracy over speed. Even static shots there will be on occasional miss with her but I attribute that to the Sigma 17-50 more than anything IMHO.

Fuji is accurate for static "look at mom and smile" type shots I hope.

I get fewer anomalous AF misses with the X-E2 on static subjects and portraits than I did with the 5d3, but that's to be expected with mirrorless. I don't want you to think I'm emotionally invested in Fuji. You might prefer a Fuji over the M3 given the glass selection. I am missing focus on some moving subjects a little more with respect to tracking. However, I am very happy with it for purposes of street photography, which is about the fastest thing I care to shoot anymore. I practice tracking with motorists, cyclists and skaters using the 23mm, 35mm and a manual focus 85mm. The images below were both taken with the X-E2 using the 23 f/1.4. The first was an erratic subject with zero preparation, the second a smooth panning shot, both with acceptable blur for action IMO. I also have a handful of headshots and walking street shots in my gallery taken over the last six months or so that are spot on.


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Aug 15, 2016 08:40 |  #45

Talley wrote in post #18095910 (external link)
My wife would love to have focus accuracy over speed. Even static shots there will be on occasional miss with her but I attribute that to the Sigma 17-50 more than anything IMHO.

Fuji is accurate for static "look at mom and smile" type shots I hope.

Have you considered other lenses? The Canon 17-55 focusing is crazy fast and accurate. If AF is your primary concern, or one of them, you need to move away from the Sigma glass. I really enjoy Sigma too, but it simply doesn't have the initial AF acquisition speed of the Canon USM glass, L or the top EFS lenses. I have had countless Sigmas, and still have 2 right now, but I have been moving to Canon for the AF speed. 3 of the lenses you are using on the 80D isn't doing the 80D AF justice, IMO.


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So my wife no longer wants the 80D
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