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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 26 Aug 2016 (Friday) 09:24
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Almost got kicked out of the Museum !

 
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Matthew ­ Patrick
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Aug 29, 2016 00:14 as a reply to  @ post 18109818 |  #76

Gorillas and Giant Squids were once stories just like this.




  
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PKIDelirium
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Aug 29, 2016 00:38 |  #77

Need some more popcorn...


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Aug 29, 2016 03:52 |  #78

Matthew Patrick wrote in post #18109855 (external link)
Gorillas and Giant Squids were once stories just like this.

1. And before it was proven that the world was flat there were stories that the world was flat. There were also stories that the stars were pin pricks in a blanket and there were stories that the sun orbited the earth. The existence of Gorillas in no way proves (or increases the probability) that some other completely unrelated thing exists. In fact it could just as easily be argued that the stories that turned out to be false provide an equal amount of proof/support for the argument that giants and mermaids don't exist.

2. The stories of Gorillas were based on encounters with Gorillas (or with people who had encountered them). The stories that the world was flat and that you would sail over the edge weren't based on people reaching the edge of the world and seeing people fall over - someone just made them up. The fact that these things all had stories told about them doesn't mean they are the same. The existence of Gorillas in no way supports the existence of giants or mermaids.

3. Of course what the existence of Gorillas does prove is that my "do anything" machines exists (some people seem to doubt the stories of it's existence). With it I travelled through time and space to check every inch of the earth throughout all of time and collect proof that no race of giants or mermaids have ever existed. Obviously I would provide proof but....

  • Obviously proof isn't necessary. I have said it so it must be so.
  • The machine (and all the proof it compiled) is detectable only by me, but that doesn't matter because of point one.

So there we are. The issue has been proven using my machine and the mater is settled. Unless someone would like to prove my machine doesn't exist.

Dan Marchant
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LV ­ Moose
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Aug 29, 2016 08:06 |  #79

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18109929 (external link)
3. Of course what the existence of Gorillas does prove is that my "do anything" machines exists (some people seem to doubt the stories of it's existence). With it I travelled through time and space to check every inch of the earth throughout all of time and collect proof that no race of giants or mermaids have ever existed. Obviously I would provide proof but....

The existence of gorillas only proves that gorillas exist. And while I find the existence of your "do anything" machine implausible, that is not proof that it doesn't.

It's one thing for someone to say they believe ghosts and giants and the Loch Ness Monster don't exist, it's another to state, unequivocally, that they do not. The inverse is the same, unless you have proof.


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joedlh
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Aug 29, 2016 08:22 |  #80

Someone familiar with the scientific method will admit that one can never prove that something doesn't exist. You may just lack the technology/methodology​/opportunity to witness it. The best you could hope for is a statement like, "I have seen no evidence to support the existence of...."

But one can martial evidence to support the existence of something. This hasn't been done for a number of urban legends. What "evidence" that was produced was later dismissed as fraudulent or not replicated. There was a time when people didn't think invisible living organisms caused disease. That was not proof that they didn't exist. It was only with the development of the microscope and scientific proofs that the germ theory of disease was established. Not to open another kettle of worms, but it is not scientifically possible to disprove the existence of a god.


Joe
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Matthew ­ Patrick
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Aug 29, 2016 11:38 |  #81

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18109818 (external link)
... If there is no evidence that it exists then it is just a story someone made up, like Mermaids, Centaurs and the hundreds of other fairy stories.

So if there is no evidence of Gorillas than they are just Fairy Tales? There was a time not too long ago when Gorillas were the stuff of legends. By your logic Gorillas are just something someone made up until they were discovered.

No one ever said the existence of Gorillas has anything to do with Giants or Mermaids. The point is that there is precedent for an organism to go from a dubious Bigfoot like status to being considered a confirmed species.




  
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OhLook
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Aug 29, 2016 11:59 |  #82

Matthew Patrick wrote in post #18110256 (external link)
No one ever said the existence of Gorillas has anything to do with Giants or Mermaids. The point is that there is precedent for an organism to go from a dubious Bigfoot like status to being considered a confirmed species.

There is also precedent for an organism to remain in its dubious status because good enough evidence for it doesn't turn up. What evidence is good enough depends partly on whether there are credible competing explanations. People who are drawn to a belief tend to ignore its alternatives and fail to take probability into account.

But this thread has been way off topic for a long time.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | Comments welcome

  
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Matthew ­ Patrick
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Aug 29, 2016 12:08 |  #83

[QUOTE=OhLook;18110280​]There is also precedent for an organism to remain in its dubious status because good enough evidence for it doesn't turn up. What evidence is good enough depends partly on whether there are credible competing explanations. People who are drawn to a belief tend to ignore its alternatives and fail to take probability into account.

I agree, why do people ask if you "believe in the Lock Ness Monster" rather than "do you think it exists"?




  
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Gungnir
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Aug 29, 2016 13:57 |  #84

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18108699 (external link)
Well there is your problem. You are using an organ designed for digestion to do your thinking.

The gut does have neurological tissue...


Steve
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sjones
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Aug 29, 2016 14:15 |  #85

Moderators, can we please move this thread to another website. Thanks, and good day.


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Chet
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Aug 29, 2016 14:35 |  #86

I'm enjoying it.




  
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banquetbear
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Aug 29, 2016 14:38 |  #87

LV Moose wrote in post #18109343 (external link)
How do you prove that giants or ghosts don't exist (or never existed)? Even if there was no proof that they did exist, that's not the same as saying there's proof that they didn't (or don't).

...how do I prove that that you and the rest of the world are real, and not just part of a huge big Virtual Reality Simulation in my head? How do I prove that the President of the United States isn't really a shape-shifting reptilian humanoid? (Yes: people really believe this. (external link))

Here's the thing. I don't need to prove anything. Making an extraordinary claim is very very easy. "The world is flat." "I saw a ghost in my room." "I was abducted by aliens." If someone makes a claim I'm not obliged to do all the leg-work to prove that their claim is real. If you think the earth is flat that not only flies in the face of my own personal observation but also flies in the face of the overwhelming scientific consensus. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

There is no verifiable evidence that "giants" (outside of the occasional very tall person and the previously mentioned "gigantism") exist. If you want to believe in giants then you are welcome too believe, and if you want to believe in the possibility that giants may exist then feel free to believe that. But apart from an "email" on a website run by a "giantologist" and a 20 year old memory from the OP there is no evidence that these bones exist.

And with all due respect to the OP his behaviour in the museum was creepy and scary. I spent two years working in a museum and I can't imagine any circumstances where curators would lie: it would be too easy for them to get caught. Unfortunately for this particular museum, websites like the one mentioned in the OP (external link) have spread the story that "these bones are held at the museum" which is most probably why staff are taught to say that "no they are not."


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Pagman
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Aug 29, 2016 14:38 |  #88

Chet wrote in post #18110429 (external link)
I'm enjoying it.


ME TO............:-)


P.


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LV ­ Moose
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Aug 29, 2016 14:54 |  #89

banquetbear wrote in post #18110432 (external link)
If you think the earth is flat that not only flies in the face of my own personal observation but also flies in the face of the overwhelming scientific consensus.

Once upon a time, "personal observation" and "scientific consensus" had people believing exactly that.

Scientific "truths" change over time. History is replete with examples.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Aug 29, 2016 15:02 |  #90

.

I am also enjoying this banter (or is it a discussion?) quite a bit.

If anyone doesn't like it, they are free to not read it, right?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Almost got kicked out of the Museum !
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