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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 24 Aug 2016 (Wednesday) 21:29
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Canon 5D Mark IV -- Time to Discuss!

 
basketballfreak6
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Sep 04, 2016 17:40 |  #1081

Hockeyphoto wrote in post #18116841 (external link)
Let's face it, if you're buying a $3K DSLR, you're most likely not struggling in the first place. You can get by with lesser cameras, period. Saying those that are buying one must have "money to burn" is just silly. This hobby isn't like buying beanie babies or something like that- ownership of new camera like this is more than just plain ownership. It's the excitement of exploring something new and seeing exactly what it can do first hand. If I wanted to blow money, I'd go to Vegas. I'm the type that loves to try things myself instead of reading about it or watching a youtube video.

I also waited several years after release to buy a 5D MKIII and when I got it, I loved it. Made me wish I had gotten one early on! I'm not rich, but my photography hobby makes me happy and I enjoy time out with my camera. Well worth the price at release if you ask me!

yep

i preordered the 5D4 because i had a wedding to shoot in october (i pick up odd jobs now and then, still intend to keep this primarily as a hobby) and needed a second FF body, plan was to sell my 5D3 after the wedding + money made from wedding shoot to cover cost of the 5D4, just found out couple days ago that the wedding got cancelled because father of the groom had a sudden heart attack and passed away :( (so close to father's day too, so sad) and they decided to postpone wedding plans

because the wedding's now cancelled i thought about cancelling my preorder as well, then i thought to myself, i know i will definitely be getting the camera down the line anyway, how long will i have to wait before it drops a significant amount to make the wait worthwhile, all that time i could be enjoying this new body that i've been so looking forward to, so decided to keep the preorder (and now eagerly waiting to get my hands on that first batch)

sometimes is nice to splurge and treat yourself a little, as long as it's reasonable and within the means, especially when you're so passionate about the hobby (me being a bit of gearhead don't help :P)


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Sep 04, 2016 17:50 |  #1082

When I told my wife about the launch of the 5D4 two weeks ago she said: "Buy it now!" I never disobey my wife... :)
The reason she gave: 'At our age (we are mid seventies) you should do thing NOW and not wait as then it may be too late....


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Talley
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Sep 04, 2016 18:23 |  #1083

vk2gwk wrote in post #18116962 (external link)
When I told my wife about the launch of the 5D4 two weeks ago she said: "Buy it now!" I never disobey my wife... :)
The reason she gave: 'At our age (we are mid seventies) you should do thing NOW and not wait as then it may be too late....

You got 40 years of wisdom on me. I'll listen to this :)


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cwphoto
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Sep 04, 2016 19:03 |  #1084

John Sheehy wrote in post #18116546 (external link)
Much of it being unnecessary, and only a struggle against technological limitations. You still have to know where to be and when to be an interesting photographer. We can only sample an infinitesimal percentage of all time slices and perspectives, and knowing which ones to position ourselves in is an art in itself. Picking frames from a burst or HQ video, and picking focal planes after the fact are still artistic decisions.

Good riddance to boasting about what one can do with their hands tied behind their backs, useful only as a competitive novelty for the bored.

Artistic perhaps, but not skill - I'll take the boasting every day of the week thanks.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Sep 04, 2016 19:48 |  #1085

krikricricri wrote in post #18116730 (external link)
Can someone explain me exposure correction in Manual Mode with Auto Iso ?
I've got an 5D Mark III , so It will be new for me !!
How is the display after for instance a exposure correction of +1 ?

It has the same effect as EC in any other mode. +1 will brighten the JPEG or default conversion; -1 will darken it. It does so by changing ISO (+1 will double the ISO; -1 will halve it), instead of changing shutter speed or f-number.




  
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Sep 04, 2016 20:41 |  #1086

This morning at church, someone was waiting for me. I had promised this cute young couple I'd do their wedding for free since the groom's parents catered my son's wedding and they are close friends. She asked if I got my new camera yet. I said it ships this week. She said she'd like to have me shoot their engagement pictures in October! WOW! I got a job and I didn't even get the camera yet! Still, I do this for wedding gifts. I don't know if these young couples really know how much I am saving them. But hey, I get to play with my new toy. Now to download the manual and read it before I get it. :)


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John ­ Sheehy
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Sep 04, 2016 20:57 |  #1087

umphotography wrote in post #18116720 (external link)
Guys I talk to say the DP Review is complete BS

I have no idea why you're mentioning "the DP Review" here. Nothing in my post referred to "the DP Review". I have a set of RAW black frames at all the ISOs from one of the first people to get a D5.

and they love the body...Long time Nikon users are telling me best body the have ever used.

Maybe it is operationally, which is what may matter most to people with certain needs, but that does not change the fact that the D5 doesn't really do quite as well, noise-wise, as the DxOMark results might suggest, because the non-random component is fairly strong.

Files can be misleading especially when they are not captured correctly or in a pro who knows what he is doing and gets good files properly exposed.

That sounds like camera-excusing rhetoric. If you have to expose carefully high, then the camera has a weakness, period.

I know a few guys who have purchased 2 D5's and highly successful wedding and commercial photographers.

I don't see "wedding photography" as an ultimate low-light challenge. I shoot in deep shade with 800mm and f/8, hand-held, with subjects that need 1/800 so that their twitching and jumping doesn't blur.

Have you seen Oles D5 field report ? They look dam good to my eye.

I would not put any stock into anything until I had it in my hands or knew guys I could trust that know what they are doing and have used it and reported.

There's nothing those people can do about the noisy electronics, other than avoid its consequences with a flash or by increasing ambient exposure. I have to shake my head when I see someone write something like, "ISO 12800 is good on this camera, as long as you expose a little to the right", which actually means, "don't really shoot at ISO 12800; set the camera to 12800, so that's what the EXIF says, but expose at ISO 8000 or 7000", because it actually is not very good for ISO 12800".

The guys I know are raving about this D5. And they among the best in the industry

Just sayin

I didn't say the D5 isn't in the top class of high-ISO imaging. I said that its line noise keeps it from being quite as good as its DxOMark results might suggest. IOW, if the D5 scored 2/3 stop better than the 5D4, it might actually be only 1/3 stop better in practice for large image sizes or crops, and possibly not better at all in a small web image. DxO's scores assume perfect 1/f Gaussian noise to make them practically true. The 5D's noise is farther from that ideal than that of some cameras which are closer to the ideal, but have a little more quantity of noise.

Of course, I am speaking of a range of potentials, with some speculation about actual results, but what we really need is comparisons of cameras in extremes, say shooting a reference scene at ISO 1 million in an off-color light, like red-starved shade (a couple stops less red than green and blue), with the same adaptable manual-aperture lens and the same exposure time for all cameras compared, with a small color checker in the scene, and all converted to make the color checkers look the same brightness, contrast, and color. Comparisons at high and very low magnification (300*200 pixels at one extreme).




  
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mclaren777
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Sep 05, 2016 02:12 |  #1088

Rittrato wrote in post #18116939 (external link)
Refurbs usually costs as much as new since you have to pay for taxes.

You always have to pay sales tax.

Some people simply choose to downplay the dangers of tax evasion.


A simple comparison of sensor technology: Nikon vs. Canon (external link)
A technical comparison of sensor technology: Exposure Latitude (external link)

  
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jonneymendoza
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Sep 05, 2016 03:37 |  #1089

jonneymendoza wrote in post #18105498 (external link)
http://www.canon.co.uk …d-mark-iv/specifications/ (external link)

"Spot metering: Center spot metering (approx. 1.3% viewfinder at centre)

AF point-linked spot metering not provided"

ffs canon why!

gimped it again and forcing people to take a look atg a 1dx2

why why canon! :(


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jonneymendoza
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Sep 05, 2016 03:40 |  #1090

vk2gwk wrote in post #18116962 (external link)
When I told my wife about the launch of the 5D4 two weeks ago she said: "Buy it now!" I never disobey my wife... :)
The reason she gave: 'At our age (we are mid seventies) you should do thing NOW and not wait as then it may be too late....

even if you are 20 years old you should do stuff now because at any age, our life can end


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Sep 05, 2016 03:54 as a reply to  @ mclaren777's post |  #1091

Talley wrote in post #18115414 (external link)
So again why couldn't you do 3 exports of the DPR image one in the middle, and two extremes then focus stack the three images together. Shoot at 1.4 but get the DOF of shooting at F4 with the shutter/low iso benefits of shooting wide open.

That sounds perfectly feasible - even if the Dual Pixel raw software didn't have an "adjust depth of field" option, you could indeed export and stack frames.

Looking at the YouTube video posted earlier (the guy testing 200/300/400/600mm) I must admit I didn't think there was much potential to backfocus though.

John Sheehy wrote in post #18116455 (external link)
ISO 64 should be possible with "normal" RAW headroom with dual-pixel RAW, if the headroom claims are true. Canon might not support it directly, but you can DIY with ETTR or maybe Magic Lantern might do something that can make it transparent to the user if they figure out the firmware.

It seems to have gone a bit quiet over the last few days, but Iliah Borg's work is hinting at the possibility of getting an extra stop of highlight data. I assume that's theoretically ISO 50, but even if it turns out to be well under a stop at ISO 100 that could still take the 5D4's low ISO DR somewhere up to 14 stops, which would be pretty good, by Canon standards anyway.


John Sheehy wrote in post #18116455 (external link)
That's computation-intensive. Now you're resampling, rather than binning like in the 5D3. Resampling can give the least aliasing, but 1.5->1 resampling is rough on details. They probably figured line skipping was not used in the 5D3, so that is no longer an option in the 5D series. Line skipping is the worst method, as far as aliasing goes. The best video from a Bayer sensor would come from a very high sensor resolution, and a heavy downsampling, with full color at every pixel and no aliasing, but that would require lots of processor power and battery power. Binning with overlapping source tiles could avoid aliasing, too, but that needs precise ratios of pixels. It's really a big struggle to resize to close numbers; the options are not ideal.

I guess I've spent too many years with powerful computers :-). A 1.5x reduction should be "trivial"; but maybe not in reality.


gossamer88 wrote in post #18116708 (external link)
I don't understand the rush to get this camera. Especially with so little reviews. Not to mention real world experience that will soon be on YouTube and other sites.

Because I'm desperate to have to wait for firmware to fix the bugs, and for the chance to have to sent the camera back to Canon for early adopter hardware fixes :mrgreen:

umphotography wrote in post #18116720 (external link)
Guys I talk to say the DP Review is complete BS and they love the body...Long time Nikon users are telling me best body the have ever used. Files can be misleading especially when they are not captured correctly or in a pro who knows what he is doing and gets good files properly exposed. I know a few guys who have purchased 2 D5's and highly successful wedding and commercial photographers.

The D5 is probably perfectly suited to its task: high fps, low light/high ISO, fast AF. Hence I suspect users will be very happy.

The noise issue is real though (think older Canon bodies). It's just that it's probably not that big of a deal for D5 style shooters. Heck, even during the full out whinging sessions about Canon banding we used to have Canon shooters turn up to try to find what the fuss was all about (because they'd never experienced the problem for their style of shooting). Point being: a problem can exist (and be factually true), but without it hitting a user.


cwphoto wrote in post #18117044 (external link)
Artistic perhaps, but not skill - I'll take the boasting every day of the week thanks.

Fair point, but, consider the following: Human reaction time is something in the order of 0.25s, and a top sports body will shoot more than 10fps (i.e. 0.1s).

If one shot of a burst at 10fps is "the shot" and the other's aren't, then it's highly unlikely a shooter with a slow/single shot body could have gotten that frame due to skill/reaction time (there would be a big chunk of luck).

On the flip side, I remember an article by Scott Kelby (reviewing some new sports camera at a US football game); he noted that despite the fact the camera was awesome, the pros were still getting much better images because they understood the play, and the likely movements of the players.

Good gear gives you a better technical shot, gives you a slightly higher chance of getting "the shot" during a burst, and perhaps Dual Pixel raw will help rescue Canon's not-as-good-as-it-should-be-iTR; but, skill and understanding of the subject is still going to trump gear every day.


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MatthewK
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Sep 05, 2016 08:50 |  #1092

I was going to work today (Labor Day), and instead take off Friday in anticipation of The Delivery, but knowing our luck it'll get delivered on Saturday or Monday haha I'll be thoroughly surprised if they ship on Thursday and it's in my hands Friday.

jonneymendoza wrote in post #18117358 (external link)
even if you are 20 years old you should do stuff now because at any age, our life can end

With the caveat being that you're financially in a position to do so... In the not too distant past, I fell on the "you only live once" sword one too many times, and I'm still paying the price :oops: Just don't want younger people to go through what I did, believing in the fallacy that you have time to make huge financial mistakes and not bear any of the consequences. $3500 is a LOT of money to most people, so be careful when considering whether or not to "live once" and take on this debt if you are on shaky ground!

Of course, this being the Internet and all, noooooobody is financially irresponsible, right? :-)



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Sep 05, 2016 09:40 |  #1093

MatthewK wrote in post #18117515 (external link)
I was going to work today (Labor Day), and instead take off Friday in anticipation of The Delivery, but knowing our luck it'll get delivered on Saturday or Monday haha I'll be thoroughly surprised if they ship on Thursday and it's in my hands Friday.

With the caveat being that you're financially in a position to do so... In the not too distant past, I fell on the "you only live once" sword one too many times, and I'm still paying the price :oops: Just don't want younger people to go through what I did, believing in the fallacy that you have time to make huge financial mistakes and not bear any of the consequences. $3500 is a LOT of money to most people, so be careful when considering whether or not to "live once" and take on this debt if you are on shaky ground!

Of course, this being the Internet and all, noooooobody is financially irresponsible, right? :-)

Nope. You take 3500 and for the average 20yr old and invest that into mutual funds your potential is to have 100-250k at retirement. I agree with this but also at the same time you do have a chance never to make it to retirement.

I also find that many do not live within their means. We are very frugal with our spending. Kids are clothed, all bills paid, retirement funds are constantly being increased, savings are growing, vehicles are being maintained properly, home repairs are being met, kids after school activities are being paid for, we have food on the table without hiccup and vacationing is planned a year in advanced. THEN I get to spend on my camera items and we also fit in the home upgrades outside of any repairs. If you can't achieve all the above then you don't need to be spending tons of money on camera equipment.


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Hockeyphoto
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Sep 05, 2016 09:56 as a reply to  @ Talley's post |  #1094

I have friends with $5K golf clubs, $8K pinball machines, ridiculously modified cars/motorcycles, etc., crazy expensive guns, and I guess I don't view my hobby as anything crazy/extreme compared to others. Photography is certainly more practical. Lets face it, life is just one big financial decision after another and how you spend your discretionary income fits you and what makes you happy. I wish I could just drop $8K on a pinball machine to sit and have fun with! Maybe that would fit more in the "money to burn" category? But I could care less. Good for them.

Can we now focus back on the camera itself and stop talking about it's cost? The market price for this camera is what it is. And they will sell a ton. I have not always been able to buy the latest/greatest thing, but I made do with what I had. I thought we all did that? No need to be critical of those that can afford it, that's life. I can't afford a Ferrari, but don't feel the need to be critical of those that can. If you can do it, good for you! :lol:

If I was filthy rich, I'd have a full selection of cameras and every "L" lens I could get! I need to win Lotto!


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MatthewK
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Post edited over 3 years ago by MatthewK. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 05, 2016 10:10 |  #1095

Talley wrote in post #18117552 (external link)
Nope. You take 3500 and for the average 20yr old and invest that into mutual funds your potential is to have 100-250k at retirement. I agree with this but also at the same time you do have a chance never to make it to retirement.

I also find that many do not live within their means. We are very frugal with our spending. Kids are clothed, all bills paid, retirement funds are constantly being increased, savings are growing, vehicles are being maintained properly, home repairs are being met, kids after school activities are being paid for, we have food on the table without hiccup and vacationing is planned a year in advanced. THEN I get to spend on my camera items and we also fit in the home upgrades outside of any repairs. If you can't achieve all the above then you don't need to be spending tons of money on camera equipment.

Well Talley, you are someone who clearly falls under the caveat of "being financially in a position to do so", which a majority of Americans are not. Chances are that most people will indeed see retirement, so people going through life blindly believing that they're entitled to be irresponsible with finances is not advisable. In the case of the posts we are referring to, the person in their 70's living in retirement are more likely able to afford to splurge, vs. someone in their early 20's.

Of course, this is the Internet so everyone is financially stable, who am I to assume anything? I'm not a financial advisor nor am I telling anyone how to live their lives... I'm simply advising people to be wary of getting trapped in the "I'll pay it off next paycheck" mentality, and that big purchases (on credit) can have HUGE repercussions on long term financial stability. Instant gratification to have the latest and greatest is a dangerous siren.

"Even more alarming is that many people have no savings at all. In fact, almost 30% report having a zero balance, and 62% have less than $1,000 in savings, according to a survey by GOBankingRates.com. An additional 21% report having no savings account whatsoever."



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