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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 11 Sep 2016 (Sunday) 10:13
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Shooting a restaurant/coffee shop during business hours

 
ESMcBlurM3
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Sep 12, 2016 13:25 |  #16

Wilt wrote in post #18125423 (external link)
How about a relatively low ISO, and a relatively long (a couple of seconds) shutter speed, with an appropriately small aperture, with a tripod mounted camera

  • ...captures the locale,
  • ...the restaurant clientel will be mostly blurred enough to not be recognizable,
  • ...the restaurant staff will be mostly blurred streaks as they move about from place to place.



Hinson's suggestion, in preparation, is a good one.

This is doable - and they are open to this exact type of shot. However, they are small spaces - and either way I feel I'll be interrupting by just being in there with the equipment.


armis wrote in post #18125504 (external link)
Naive alternative: arrange a staged shoot? Get random bystanders, friends and family or even a handful of paid models to come during closing hours and shoot to your heart's content.

Absolutely a possibility and being discussed.. it depends on how involved the design group wants to get.


kjonnnn wrote in post #18125529 (external link)
One thought ...

If you decided to go with posting that the shoot is happening on a certain day to warn participants, you
might need some type of confimation that the participants waived away their right for any compensation seeing as this ad will be for commercial purposes.

I'm not saying it will happen but that it could (ive heard of instances). You take the photos with regular diners, and at some point someone sees themselves in a successful ad compaign and they say to themselves "hey, I didnt get paid for that." Thats probably why most situations like this are staged. I've had the experience that employees and I were always in former employers' ads (a national association) for various things, and we signed a release and were compensated two dollars. LOL

I might might be better to stage the setting with employees and their friends and family and provide the free meal as compensation. Thats a safe and cheap way to go.

Yea, if we go this route - releases will be printed and signed for shooting any direct groups.

Good convo and insight, thanks!


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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Sep 12, 2016 13:51 |  #17

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18125116 (external link)
Rule #1. The client will be using the images and they are legally responsible for arranging model releases and letting their customers know what is happening.
Rule #2. It is essential that the photographer ignores Rule #1.

Regardless of who should do what or who is legally responsible. When something goes wrong the client will blame the photographer. That means it is up to you to make sure everything goes to plan. Assuming the general public will do what you want, when you want, without any prior arrangement = suicide. Even posting notices in advance is a huge risk because it assumes that the people coming in on the night saw the notice in advance and came in anyway.

Would you charge extra for that?

There is no way that unless I am getting properly compensated, am I going around and getting releases from 40 different people.




  
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Hinson. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 12, 2016 20:50 |  #18

I just remembered this image that I uploaded to my Flickr site a year ago. Took a while to find it but this is what I saw a year ago when I visited a Friday evening entertainment activity put on by a new development. In the center of the shopping area was a small park bordered by stores & restaurants. They hired a small local band for the evening to provide free entertainment to the locals, drawing them into the new locations. I thought it a pretty novel idea and photographed the sign. A sign such as this posted on the front door of the establishment would probably do the trick. I'm sure they had their legal team do the wording.

This was posted numerous times around the "free concert" venue . Lots of resturants, stores etc. The signs were placed so that anyone entering the area from any of the sidewalks to hear the music, had to pass one of the signs. I had my lumix on a monopod and I guess I looked like 'the photographer' for the event. Nobody questioned me shooting. More places need to do this.


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Sep 13, 2016 00:03 |  #19

the flying moose wrote in post #18125603 (external link)
There is no way that unless I am getting properly compensated, am I going around and getting releases from 40 different people.

Accepting commercial jobs like this often means that you (and your team) will manage everything from ideation to final asset delivery. You don't have to be the person actually getting the releases signed, but you should be able to task someone who you trust to get the job done.


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Scott ­ Spellman
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Sep 13, 2016 05:46 as a reply to  @ Hinson's post |  #20

After a little research, the PPA specifies that Privacy Laws in Rhode Island require a written model release by each person. So signs etc. are not enough.

https://www.ppa.com …odelreleasewhit​epaper.pdf (external link)




  
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ESMcBlurM3
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Sep 13, 2016 08:19 |  #21

Scott Spellman wrote in post #18126346 (external link)
After a little research, the PPA specifies that Privacy Laws in Rhode Island require a written model release by each person. So signs etc. are not enough.

https://www.ppa.com …odelreleasewhit​epaper.pdf (external link)

Ouch, nice catch. Thanks for the leg work.


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Sep 13, 2016 09:33 |  #22

JacobPhoto wrote in post #18126219 (external link)
Accepting commercial jobs like this often means that you (and your team) will manage everything from ideation to final asset delivery.

True in the real world, & the client would be charged accordingly.

You don't have to be the person actually getting the releases signed, but you should be able to task someone who you trust to get the job done.

What about the potential for someone to walk unnoticed into the set while you're shooting? What about the joker who doesn't sign a legal signature?
The only way that I would take responsibility for getting the signatures would be if it was a closed set & I had total control as to who was in it.


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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Sep 13, 2016 14:47 |  #23

JacobPhoto wrote in post #18126219 (external link)
Accepting commercial jobs like this often means that you (and your team) will manage everything from ideation to final asset delivery. You don't have to be the person actually getting the releases signed, but you should be able to task someone who you trust to get the job done.

Fair enough, but for things like this, locally for me anyway, literally 99.9999999% of the time I am the only member of my "team". So chasing 40-50 people down trying to get proper photo releases just is not possible for me unless I am allowed to budget additional time to do the project getting compensated for my time as well.

Part of this is why I don't really do commercial work when approached with a project and I bring up things like photo releases and contracts, people seem to scoff and say things like "people won't mind if you take their photos".




  
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Sep 14, 2016 18:02 |  #24

the flying moose wrote in post #18126872 (external link)
Fair enough, but for things like this, locally for me anyway, literally 99.9999999% of the time I am the only member of my "team". So chasing 40-50 people down trying to get proper photo releases just is not possible for me unless I am allowed to budget additional time to do the project getting compensated for my time as well.

Part of this is why I don't really do commercial work when approached with a project and I bring up things like photo releases and contracts, people seem to scoff and say things like "people won't mind if you take their photos".

Again, "commercial" work implies "commercial" rates. I don't think I've ever quoted a commercial rate under four figures. In that instance, I'll find someone I can hire / pay to take care of model releases for me.


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Sep 16, 2016 10:49 |  #25
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PhotosGuy wrote in post #18126535 (external link)
True in the real world, & the client would be charged accordingly.
What about the potential for someone to walk unnoticed into the set while you're shooting? What about the joker who doesn't sign a legal signature?
The only way that I would take responsibility for getting the signatures would be if it was a closed set & I had total control as to who was in it.

What do you mean by joker here? If I'm out for the evening for a nice relaxed dinner with my wife, the last thing I want is a photo dweeb sticking a camera into my face as I'm talking to my wife over dinner.

We talk about extra billing by the photog in collecting signed releases...if I was a customer, I'd expect some compensation for my signed release as it is infringing on my dinner out.




  
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Sep 16, 2016 11:25 |  #26

Hogloff wrote in post #18129992 (external link)
What do you mean by joker here? If I'm out for the evening for a nice relaxed dinner with my wife, the last thing I want is a photo dweeb sticking a camera into my face as I'm talking to my wife over dinner.

Not that joker. The one who signs something like "Harry Truman"?

We talk about extra billing by the photog in collecting signed releases...if I was a customer, I'd expect some compensation for my signed release as it is infringing on my dinner out.

I agree if they use walk-in traffic. That's why a closed set is the only way that I'd want to do the shoot. Models would be paid. Friends of the owner would at least get a free meal, & maybe an 8X10", too.


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Sep 20, 2016 09:32 as a reply to  @ post 18125116 |  #27

.

I suggest that you have a very thorough contract and that you don't even consider shooting anything at these venues unless the contract is signed by your client. In the contract, of course, make it very clear that any releases - both model and property - are the sole responsibility of your client, and that you will not be responsible for any aspect of acquiring releases. You're not to even bother with getting names or contact information, nor with keeping track of who is in which shot.

ALL you do is shoot and provide the images and EVERYTHING else is the responsibility of the client. The only way most clients get this is if it is in writing in very bold, clear language.

I have done this myself, and, actually, most clients have decided not to have any photography done once they realize that the responsibility of releases will fall on their shoulders. They just figure it isn't worth the hassle and decide not to use photography in their advertising. Better to lose a job than to wish you had never gotten it in the first place.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Shooting a restaurant/coffee shop during business hours
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