Canon 5D Mark IV -- Time to Discuss!

Neilyb wrote in post #18156476
An update from CPS Germany.

"Dear Mr. Burton,

Thank you for your answer.

Actually, we received some feedback from other customers over the years with the same issue. This happens then when only the TC is to the camera attached. In this case, you have an “open circuit” and the camera will keep trying to communicate – even is the camera is switched of – through the TC with the Lens, which is not attached. This will happen not with all gears, but from time to time, we receive some feedback like yours. The ON/OFF switch works not a real switch, but it is actually a “software-switch”, so the camera can continue communicate with the other components.

In these cases, we recommend to attach also the lens to the TC. Due to the length of your gear, this will not the best option for you. Either you take the battery out from the camera, or you attach the TC direct to the lens, without the camera.

You can also try to reset the camera to the factory settings (clear all camera settings).

We hope to have helped you."

So, we are aware of the problem and can do/will do nothing about it.

I'm not convinced there isn't a problem with the new LP-E6N batteries. The first time I charged the battery that came with my 5DIV, it discharged itself completely overnight, left in the camera (135L attached, camera turned off). Since then I've left the battery out of the camera, but I went to use it today and it's down to 8% (from ~70%) in a week. My 6 year old LP-E6 does considerably better than that.

Not convinced about the CPS reply. Mainly as I never noticed this with other bodies.

FarmerTed1971 wrote in post #18160549
I use BB a lot as well. 12-24 months same as cash is very nice.

I bought my 5D4 from Best Buy due to the 24mo. 0% interest and they matched the price that I could have had it shipped to me from B&H(they discounted the camera to cover the sales price )

I have 2 LP-E6n batteries, one came with my 80D and one with the 5DIV. I never noticed anything odd with the 80D battery , I actually love it, I regularly use it in my 5DIII and it lasts longer.
However, I got into puzzling battery trouble with the 5DIV recently. I'm not sure which LP-E6n it was (maybe both?) but it happened twice that they lost a huge amount of charge while the camera was off. The last one was 2 nights ago when I went to shoot an event and the battery had been charged the day before, the 5DIV had no lens on just the cap, and when I got it out of my bag to start shooting the event, it was down to only 1 marking. Fortunately I had spare batteries with me.
Again, the LP-E6n never gave me this problem in the 80D and 5DIII.
I don't really understand the German CPS response that it's an open circuit and hence it discharges the battery. Should it be the other way?

gabebalazs wrote in post #18162352
...I don't really understand the German CPS response that it's an open circuit and hence it discharges the battery. Should it be the other way?

By "open circuit" they might be meaning that the loop of Camera<->TC<->Lens is open (because there's no lens) and hence the camera keeps asking the TC if there's a lens present yet.

sploo wrote in post #18162395
By "open circuit" they might be meaning that the loop of Camera<->TC<->Lens is open (because there's no lens) and hence the camera keeps asking the TC if there's a lens present yet.

That makes no sense. Why would a camera in sleep mode or off
keep asking if a lens is attached?

gjl711 wrote in post #18162396
That makes no sense. Why would a camera in sleep mode or off
keep asking if a lens is attached?

I don't know if it is valid, but this makes sense to me:

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18156918
Likely this all began with the 20D and "instant on"

That was when it started that every time you put in a battery, upon closing the battery door, the camera light woudl blink red for a fraction of a second.
Before that you had to wait a LONG time to go from off to shooting.

FEChariot wrote in post #18162400
I don't know if it is valid, but this makes sense to me:

Why? For what reason would a camera that is turned off need to poll the lens. If that were the case then a camera stored without a lens, just body cap would be constantly draining the battery.

gjl711 wrote in post #18162408
Why? For what reason would a camera that is turned off need to poll the lens. If that were the case then a camera stored without a lens, just body cap would be constantly draining the battery.

I'm guessing there's something in the Canon TC that's draining it, a chip or something, that the camera is polling periodically.

I wonder if this happens with 3rd party TCs that don't tell the camera that they're there. In that case I'd imagine the camera would be none the wiser and there'd be no additional drain.

If that's what's happening, it explains the battery drain, although I agree with you that I'm not sure why it has to be happening and certainly should it be causing this much drain?

gjl711 wrote in post #18162408
Why? For what reason would a camera that is turned off need to poll the lens. If that were the case then a camera stored without a lens, just body cap would be constantly draining the battery.

Yes, that's my point too. My camera lost charge with no lens or TC on, just the cap.
OR it may be remotely possible that I replaced the battery with a weak one and just don't remember it (Then I was surprised when it was almost fully discharged.)

Canon updated the battery firmware hidden within the new 5D4 firmware and it's been suspected to put the battery into a drain mode when not in use due to the li-ion type battery and the new regulations forming around these types. The battery when stored must drain to 30% capacity within 4 days of use as mandated by the federal government.

Talley wrote in post #18162418
The battery when stored must drain to 30% capacity within 4 days of use as mandated by the federal government.

That's terrible if true.

mike_d wrote in post #18162420
That's terrible if true.

I just made it up but I wouldn't doubt it lol.... and yes it would suck.

gjl711 wrote in post #18162408
Why? For what reason would a camera that is turned off need to poll the lens. If that were the case then a camera stored without a lens, just body cap would be constantly draining the battery.

Did you read cyberdyne's comment? It sounds like it might have to do with making the camera more ready for a faster start up. Clearly I don't personally know, but it sounds plausible to me.

gjl711 wrote in post #18162396
That makes no sense. Why would a camera in sleep mode or off
keep asking if a lens is attached?

Because it's not actually off, and software is a b*tch

I've lost count of how many times I've seen, discovered, or personally coded, something that seemed sensible at the time, but ends up having some really bizarre side affect in some combination of scenarios (that wasn't fully tested). I can certainly see that "put TC on camera, leave camera off for 24 hours, monitor battery level" is a moderately unlikely test to think up; unless you had specific reason to believe it might be a problem.

"Good" development teams would add such a test to their suite of checks for future firmware builds - the rule is that if you screwed something up once, it can happen again!