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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 17 Oct 2016 (Monday) 21:15
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TeamSpeed
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Oct 18, 2016 21:59 |  #16

Bassat wrote in post #18160667 (external link)
Oh, boy. Looks like you missed the part where I agree with you.

I really doubt Mr. Spock ever said such a thing. I live on a planet with positive gravity. I am quite capable of proving that I can let go of a hammer and it will go absolutely nowhere. Mr. Spock was logical. Your attributed quote makes way more assumptions than Mr. Spock would have.

1967 episode.... "Court Martial"


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 18, 2016 22:03 |  #17

There is no good answer to the question posed without knowing:

1) What will the images be used for?
2) What is the budget?
3) What is the intended use?

Depending on these answers, the camera that has the best high ISO can then be speculated upon. Also, any camera, including the 1DX2, can have noise even at ISO 100 if the user doesn't use the correct settings.

The best cameras, overall, for noise would be, in somewhat particular order:

1DX2, 5D4, 1DX, 6D, 5D3, 7D2, 80D, 70D, 7D...


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Bassat
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Oct 19, 2016 00:13 |  #18

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18160708 (external link)
1967 episode.... "Court Martial"

Well, that impugns either the character of Mr. Spock, or the integrity of the writer's. My guess is very few writers are physicists, or even scientifically inclined. I'll let it go in the name of artistic expression. Releasing one's grip on an object under the influence of gravity implies exactly nothing about that objects future state of motion. A real Mr. Spock would not have uttered such an open-ended statement. :)




  
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Oct 19, 2016 02:10 |  #19

So let me put it this way. If you only need 18MP images then one can buy a 1Dx, because at ISO6400 the shots are very usable. But you could also take a 50MP image from a 5Ds, re-sample it down to 18MP and the noise will look very much like that on the 1Dx file, you may even have a little more detail. But then the 6D also had very good noise control, maybe even better than the 1Dx.

But this is comparing images at 100%. We know not what the OP will use his images for not do we know if he will be shooting static subjects or fast moving? Or both?

On the only piece of information we have then we will have to assume 1DxmkII is the answer. :)


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xseven
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Oct 19, 2016 04:10 as a reply to  @ Neilyb's post |  #20

The one question above all else ... is what sort of light you have in the moment ... high ISO in daylight looks very good on most cameras ... but in a dark venue even 1600 on 5D III looks only "passable" in the dark areas ...
I have seen comparisons between 6D and 5D IV ... with no visible difference from ISO 4000 upwards ... up to 10k ...
So ... the situation is "complicated" ....




  
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Oct 21, 2016 13:27 as a reply to  @ post 18160026 |  #21

Great shot, saea501, at that high ISO.

Was that shot at high ISO because it was dark in the room or because you were shooting stopped far down and/or using max shutter speed?

As someone who often shoots in near darkness, I like to see examples of high ISO utilized to compensate for the darkness and not high ISO used in a well lit room or in the sunshine when only the shutter speed and/or aperture forces the use of a said high ISO.

One might think the results should be the same, but even with my 5D3, shooting at higher than 6400 in a very dark arena/club etc. does not produce the results of your shot of the trains.

Probably me - and not the camera...




  
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Deardorff
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Oct 21, 2016 21:11 |  #22

How do you define "noise"?

We used to push Tri-X and shoot 3200 kodak B&W at much higher ASA ratings and lived with the grain. That is just part of the image.

Films like Agfa 1000 were great while grainy and really added atmosphere to foggy mornings photographing ducks and bucks.

Way too much emphasis on 'lack of grain/noise' and not enough on content worth the time to look at.


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Oct 21, 2016 21:57 |  #23

All the latest cameras are quite good at higher ISOs, there isn't really a bad choice.

This is straight out of the camera JPG on the 7D2 at 6400 in low light. It only needs marginal NR to remove the noise at 100%.


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Oct 22, 2016 22:00 |  #24

.

Deardorff wrote in post #18163411 (external link)
How do you define "noise"?

I define noise as fine textured objects that show up in the image, but that were not part of the scene that I photographed. A gritty, grainy texture when there was no such ting in the scene. This is an example of noise, according to my definition:


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Deardorff wrote in post #18163411 (external link)
. . . . . while grainy and really added atmosphere to foggy mornings photographing ducks and bucks.

I think it's awesome that you photograph ducks and bucks - they are some of my very favorite subjects!

Deardorff wrote in post #18163411 (external link)
Way too much emphasis on 'lack of grain/noise' and not enough on content worth the time to look at.

There are times when noise grain completely ruins an image, to the extent that the viewer cannot enjoy the content because the grain is distracting, or because it does not appear to be a realistic part of the scene that was captured, and thereby is incongruous with the desired aesthetic.

If the goal of my image is to showcase a silky-smooth, dark night sky, with brightly glowing embers flying thru it, and there ends up being a bunch of (to me) ugly artifacts that were not part of the real scene, then the noise itself destroyed the image, by not allowing me to capture the content that I intended to capture.

Likewise, if I am trying to photograph a buck deer in very low light, and my objective for the shot is to showcase the way that the buck's individual hairs work together to form a sleek, smooth coat . . . . . well, if I have to crank the ISO way up to some crazy high setting, then the noise will ruin the shot altogether, because it will have inhibited me from accomplishing the aesthetic and/or documentary goals that I set forth when creating the image.

I am not trying to undermine the importance of content, but art is all about the artist showing the content in precisely the way he/she wants it to be shown. Often times, noise keeps us from being able to do that. If noise grain prohibits an artist from creating an image precisely the way that he/she pictured it in his/her mind's eye, then it is a very real problem.

.


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Oct 24, 2016 16:28 |  #25

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18160712 (external link)
the camera that has the best high ISO can ... be speculated upon.
The best cameras, overall, for noise would be, in somewhat particular order:
1DX2, 5D4, 1DX, 6D, 5D3, 7D2, 80D, 70D, 7D...

Since you are ranking cameras strictly by high-ISO noise - not by AF speed or versatility, nor by weather proofing, etc - the 7D2 and the 80D are literally neck and neck from 800 up, but below that point the 80D is clearly better, at ISO 100 having a advantage of about 1.25 stop. [The charts are of "Photographic Dynamic Range", which defines the bottom of the DR as the point at which the noise is 5% of the image content, SNR=20, thus DR can be considered as the inverse of noise - more DR = less noise.


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The chart is from:
http://www.photonstoph​otos.net …rk%20II,Canon%2​0EOS%2080D (external link)

Since I am interested primarily in Landscape and Nature, that ISO 100 pulled me in.

Elie / אלי

  
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Oct 24, 2016 16:44 |  #26

Engineered_Reflex wrote in post #18160051 (external link)
I would have thought that the 1DX mkii is the current best in class for Canon, followed by the 5D mkiv and then the 6D. Quite a range there budget wise!


As an answer to the OP's question, rather than a question, this is probably close to the correct order in the Canon hierarchy.


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Oct 24, 2016 16:46 |  #27

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18163437 (external link)
All the latest cameras are quite good at higher ISOs, there isn't really a bad choice.

I totally agree with TeamSpeed. If you are shooting any Canon newer than the 50D, ISO is mostly a non-issue. The 7D/T1i/60D were quite useable at 6400. Things have only improved since then.




  
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Oct 24, 2016 16:48 |  #28

Bassat wrote in post #18160773 (external link)
Well, that impugns either the character of Mr. Spock, or the integrity of the writer's. My guess is very few writers are physicists, or even scientifically inclined. I'll let it go in the name of artistic expression. Releasing one's grip on an object under the influence of gravity implies exactly nothing about that objects future state of motion. A real Mr. Spock would not have uttered such an open-ended statement. :)


I disagree, Mr Spock would have merely applied the very thing that he is best know for.

Logic.


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Oct 24, 2016 16:52 |  #29

This thread is killing me. lol!

"We need to know what sex you are, and if you drive an import or only buy Detroit"

"How do we define photography?"

"Am I really here?"

"Who invented liquid soap and why?" **


"And most importantly, what movie is that ** a quote from?"

"Only until you answer these questions can we tell you the secret knowledge that is simply.."

1Dx2, 5D4, 1Dx, 6D and so on.

Now , have a Mars bar, I think you've earned it! ;)


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Oct 24, 2016 16:54 |  #30

Wow

Lots of people spinning this based on a camera they might own or what they have read on the net.

Canons line up

The best camera for ISO performance

Hands down and a no contest from anything else ( 5D4 is close )

1DXMK11

so you dont have to believe me. But go to Digital picture and get some real facts and at least educate yourself. Bryan has his act together

NOTHING CAN TOUCH THE 1DX2 or the Nikon D5 for High Iso performance. NOTHING on the market comes close

That is all I have to say about that


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canon camera with best ISO
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