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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 18 Oct 2016 (Tuesday) 23:56
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Football Setup

 
mikepj
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Oct 18, 2016 23:56 |  #1

Going to be photographing a football game next weekend and wanted some setup advice. The game is at noon, so I'll have plenty of light to work with. Here's the equipment I have for the action on the field:

7D2
5D2
70-200 2.8 IS II
100-400 v1
1.4x III TC

The 7D2 + 70-200 is by far the quickest focusing setup using the above gear, but I'm thinking it won't be enough reach for when the action is mid-field.

So I'm thinking my best bet might be pairing the 7D2 with the 100-400, and then having the 5D2 with the 70-200 when they are playing in the red zone.

I'd use the above setup and be done with it, if it weren't for the teleconverter. The 70-200 + 1.4x on a 7D2 would probably give me enough reach, a constant f4, and focusing speed would probably be similar to the 100-400 alone (has anyone measured this?). That would let me throw the 24-105 on my 5D2 for convenient crowd and stadium shots.

So which of these two setups would you want to use? Or should I be considering another option?


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Hannya
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Oct 19, 2016 09:26 |  #2

Sounds about right, if you are going to place yourself behind the end zone (we are talking American Football?). I'd forget the teleconverter, the loss of aperture and extra reach won't justify using it, imho. I've tried a converter with my 70-200mm and decided on a 300mm f/4 instead. I've also learned to wait for the game to come to you. If you know which is the stronger team, do down the end they are playing to, but take into account the light direction if the sun is out.


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3jc
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Oct 19, 2016 15:47 |  #3

If it were me I would use the 7D2 with the 100-400L. Manual mode, AI servo, case 4, auto ISO, shutter speed 1/1000 or more (preferably more), f 5.6 or f 8.;-)a


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john ­ crossley
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Oct 19, 2016 15:56 |  #4

mikepj wrote in post #18160768 (external link)
The 7D2 + 70-200 is by far the quickest focusing setup using the above gear, but I'm thinking it won't be enough reach for when the action is mid-field.

Let the action come to you and fill the frame.


Football is a very simple game. Twenty-two players chase a ball and Germany always win.

  
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mikepj
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Oct 20, 2016 10:08 |  #5

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. (@Hannya: Yes, American Football.)

Looks like it really is a toss-up on which lens to put on the 7D2. Maybe I'll try it one way and switch it up at halftime. I'll bring the TC just in case, but plan not to use it.


Radiant Photography (external link) Instagram (external link) Instagram (Sports) (external link) Flickr (external link)
5D Mark IV, 7D Mark II, Rebel SL1
16-35 ƒ4L, 24-105 ƒ4L, 70-200 ƒ2.8L IS II, 100-400 ƒ4.5-5.6L, 85 ƒ1.8, 50 ƒ1.8 STM, 24mm ƒ2.8 STM

  
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mickeyb105
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Oct 20, 2016 22:20 as a reply to  @ mikepj's post |  #6

The 7Dii/100-400 combo really gives you the length you need for all-around football shooting. The 5Dii 70-200 combo is great for sideline/timeout candids and red-zone work.

Best of luck!


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FarmerTed1971
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Oct 20, 2016 22:24 |  #7

7D2/100-400 and 5D2/24-105
Leave the teleconverter and 70-200 at home... blasphemy, I know.


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mikepj
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Oct 21, 2016 23:40 |  #8

Thinking about this more, there's really not as much overlap between the 7D2/100-400 and the 5D2/70-200 as I thought. With the crop factor, the 100-400 picks up at 160mm, so there's really just a 40mm overlap between the two (and the difference between 160mm and 200mm is pretty minimal). The 5D2 with the slower frame rate is definitely a different shooting style, so that might be a little jarring every time I switch.

That might be a pretty good setup after-all. But definitely bringing the 24-105 because even though it's not particularly wide, I do want to get a few panos from a high spot in the stadium. Trying to keep the gear to a minimum otherwise because I really don't want to load myself down.

Ordered another 64GB memory card because I'm planning to shoot RAW. (I also have 2 32GB cards, one of which will be in the 5D2, and 2 32GB SD cards for the second slot in the 7D2.) Even though I've heard quite a few sports photogs switch to JPEG for games, I just can't bring myself to throw away the extra data. Figure if I run through that card early, I can switch to JPEG when I put my second card in the 7D2. The frame rate on the 5D2 isn't fast enough to really fill a 32GB card in that amount of time, especially being a second body.


Radiant Photography (external link) Instagram (external link) Instagram (Sports) (external link) Flickr (external link)
5D Mark IV, 7D Mark II, Rebel SL1
16-35 ƒ4L, 24-105 ƒ4L, 70-200 ƒ2.8L IS II, 100-400 ƒ4.5-5.6L, 85 ƒ1.8, 50 ƒ1.8 STM, 24mm ƒ2.8 STM

  
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john ­ crossley
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Oct 22, 2016 05:40 |  #9

mikepj wrote in post #18163529 (external link)
Ordered another 64GB memory card because I'm planning to shoot RAW. (I also have 2 32GB cards, one of which will be in the 5D2, and 2 32GB SD cards for the second slot in the 7D2.)

Blimey, how many photographs are you planning on taking at this football game?


Football is a very simple game. Twenty-two players chase a ball and Germany always win.

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Tom Reichner. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 22, 2016 11:36 |  #10

.

You don't have to figure out lens/body/extender combinations prior to the game. Just thave the stuff with you, and continually change on the fly. That's what you are going be doing anyway, as the various opportunities present themselves. Just be prepared to make lens changes rapidly as you are walking or dashing about to get into position, so that the instant you get to the spot you want to take the next shots from, the proper lens is already mounted to the proper body, so that you don't miss any of the possible frames that you could shoot. Speed and flexibility are everything when shooting this stuff.

The goal should NOT be to keep lens changes to a minimum. Rather, the goal should be to execute lens changes as rapidly as possible and as often as needed.

john crossley wrote in post #18163641 (external link)
Blimey, how many photographs are you planning on taking at this football game?

When I shot H.S. football for the local paper, I shot anywhere from 800 to 4,000 frames per game. It behooves you to shoot as many frames as possible, so as to increase the number of "keepers" that you will ultimately capture.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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john ­ crossley
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Oct 22, 2016 14:59 |  #11

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18163850 (external link)
.

4,000 frames per game.

.

Blumming ummer that's one every 0.9 seconds

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18163850 (external link)
.

It behooves you to shoot as many frames as possible, so as to increase the number of "keepers" that you will ultimately capture.

.

I have to disagree with that statement. You will get a far higher keeper rate by knowing the game and being selective on the action that you shoot.


Football is a very simple game. Twenty-two players chase a ball and Germany always win.

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 22, 2016 21:17 |  #12

john crossley wrote in post #18163974 (external link)
Blumming ummer that's one every 0.9 seconds

I have to disagree with that statement. You will get a far higher keeper rate by knowing the game and being selective on the action that you shoot.

Those who shoot the NFL games are the best in the world at this kind of shooting, and they shoot far more frames during a game than I did. Are you suggesting that they don't know the game, and that if they did it your way, they would have a greater number of marketable images at the end of each game?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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mikepj
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Oct 22, 2016 22:13 |  #13

john crossley wrote in post #18163974 (external link)
I have to disagree with that statement. You will get a far higher keeper rate by knowing the game and being selective on the action that you shoot.

You might get a higher keeper rate, but that doesn't mean you get more keepers.

I'm all for trying to time the action just right, and up until recently I only had cameras with slow frame rates, so I had to time it right. But the benefit can't be understated enough for being able to hold your finger on the shutter and get a quick second of 10 shots to choose from in order to capture the peak moment of action. The better you are at timing, the less frames you'll take, but either way there is a reason cameras targeted to sports photography capture ever-increasing frames per second.

For a 64GB card you can store…what…2000-2500 RAW photos? At 10 frames per second that card could be full in less than 5 minutes. Having enough memory cards with you can definitely make the difference between a successful day and a frustrating one.


Radiant Photography (external link) Instagram (external link) Instagram (Sports) (external link) Flickr (external link)
5D Mark IV, 7D Mark II, Rebel SL1
16-35 ƒ4L, 24-105 ƒ4L, 70-200 ƒ2.8L IS II, 100-400 ƒ4.5-5.6L, 85 ƒ1.8, 50 ƒ1.8 STM, 24mm ƒ2.8 STM

  
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mikepj
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Oct 22, 2016 22:16 |  #14

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18163850 (external link)
.
The goal should NOT be to keep lens changes to a minimum. Rather, the goal should be to execute lens changes as rapidly as possible and as often as needed.
.

Good point. I suppose that's the reason we buy SLR cameras to begin with.


Radiant Photography (external link) Instagram (external link) Instagram (Sports) (external link) Flickr (external link)
5D Mark IV, 7D Mark II, Rebel SL1
16-35 ƒ4L, 24-105 ƒ4L, 70-200 ƒ2.8L IS II, 100-400 ƒ4.5-5.6L, 85 ƒ1.8, 50 ƒ1.8 STM, 24mm ƒ2.8 STM

  
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Hannya
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Hannya.
     
Oct 23, 2016 10:40 |  #15

mikepj wrote in post #18164190 (external link)
You might get a higher keeper rate, but that doesn't mean you get more keepers.

I'm all for trying to time the action just right, and up until recently I only had cameras with slow frame rates, so I had to time it right. But the benefit can't be understated enough for being able to hold your finger on the shutter and get a quick second of 10 shots to choose from in order to capture the peak moment of action. The better you are at timing, the less frames you'll take, but either way there is a reason cameras targeted to sports photography capture ever-increasing frames per second.

For a 64GB card you can store…what…2000-2500 RAW photos? At 10 frames per second that card could be full in less than 5 minutes. Having enough memory cards with you can definitely make the difference between a successful day and a frustrating one.

I shoot soccer and have done some amateur American Football too. 1 x 16gb card does me for a 90 minute soccer match and I shoot much less for an American Football match. More frames does not mean more good images. I find a short burst, usually the first frame or 2 are the only ones worth keeping. Anticipate the action is the way to go. I have to admit I find American Football more about a bunch of people standing around doing nothing much, followed by short bursts of confused bodies running this way and that. But sitting low down and waiting for the action to come to you is usually the way to go. There is no way I'd want to trawl through 2000 raw images! Machine gunning just doesn't really work as a strategy.

You don't have to figure out lens/body/extender combinations prior to the game. Just thave the stuff with you, and continually change on the fly. That's what you are going be doing anyway, as the various opportunities present themselves. Just be prepared to make lens changes rapidly as you are walking or dashing about to get into position, so that the instant you get to the spot you want to take the next shots from, the proper lens is already mounted to the proper body, so that you don't miss any of the possible frames that you could shoot. Speed and flexibility are everything when shooting this stuff.

I would have to disagree here, based on my own experience. I've found any time I start 'chimping' or change a battery I miss a good shot opportunity, so there is no way I'd want to be pfaffing about swapping lenses and fumbling about with stuff like that. I have 2 bodies and 2 lenses. That is sufficient.


“Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” ― Henri Cartier-Bresson

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