Experimenting with the 5D4 vs my A7Rii - progress so far

mystik610 wrote in post #18168322
The need for that type of set-up is sort of over-rated for most people unless you shoot sports and wildlife.

No argument here. Since I stopped shooting HS sports my need (read: want) for that kind of high-performance is relegated to a bowl game every year and four-to-five spring training games in March.

If I were to go the A99ii route, it would mean pushing all-in on a-mount and using the RX100ii where I would use my a6000. It would definitely be a sacrifice, as I love the portability of both my a6000 and a7r with the native lenses. My lens setup would be something like Z24, 50A, Z135 and 200 HS with a 2xTC. A heavy bag for sure, and one that looks an awful lot like my old Canon kit. Miss the range of primes, don't miss the weight--isn't that always the fight? LOL

I'm still stunned by the IQ of the A7r even though it is older tech and not Sony's best sensor anymore. It would just be nice to run-and-gun with a sensor that good or better, which of course I could do if I upgraded to the a7rii--which would be hard to pass up with a nice price drop sometime over the next six months..

mickeyb105 wrote in post #18168506
No argument here. Since I stopped shooting HS sports my need (read: want) for that kind of high-performance is relegated to a bowl game every year and four-to-five spring training games in March.

If I were to go the A99ii route, it would mean pushing all-in on a-mount and using the RX100ii where I would use my a6000. It would definitely be a sacrifice, as I love the portability of both my a6000 and a7r with the native lenses. My lens setup would be something like Z24, 50A, Z135 and 200 HS with a 2xTC. A heavy bag for sure, and one that looks an awful lot like my old Canon kit. Miss the range of primes, don't miss the weight--isn't that always the fight? LOL

I'm still stunned by the IQ of the A7r even though it is older tech and not Sony's best sensor anymore. It would just be nice to run-and-gun with a sensor that good or better, which of course I could do if I upgraded to the a7rii--which would be hard to pass up with a nice price drop sometime over the next six months..

I think the key benefit of having a hybrid E-mount/A-mount kit is the LA-EA4 adapter.....the one with the built in mirror and PDAF system. I use one with my SAL 135 1.8 and AF is FAST with that thing. Very limited number of AF points, but it turns even the a7r into a solid back-up to something like the a99II.

My thought is that the need for the a99II would fit in circumstances where the need for a zoom existed. Usually when I use primes I prefer a smaller set-up. So it would be a-mount zooms, e-mount primes.

That makes sense.

I tried out the LA-EA4 but it didn't give me AF tracking on either body--so I re-sold it. The light loss was a little surprising to me as well.

For my purposes, it just made more sense to snag a used gen 1 a77 cheap--$120 more than the LA-EA4--and it worked out. I eventually upgraded to the a77ii, but in hindsight the old one was just fine for my purposes.

Why oh why do the batteries (2 batteries was a nice surprise!) come dead and take so long to charge?!!??!?!!? I'm chomping at the bit to start playing. I did get it to power on long enough to set the time and see that it is on the latest firmware already. Suppose that means it was made after 8/18 when the firmware came out. My MB4 won't be here until Monday, so I picked up the cheap nifty fifty to use on it for the weekend.

randy98mtu wrote in post #18169947
Why oh why do the batteries (2 batteries was a nice surprise!) come dead and take so long to charge?!!??!?!!? I'm chomping at the bit to start playing. I did get it to power on long enough to set the time and see that it is on the latest firmware already. Suppose that means it was made after 8/18 when the firmware came out. My MB4 won't be here until Monday, so I picked up the cheap nifty fifty to use on it for the weekend.

charge the battery in camera, so you can fiddle with the settings. The only camera I know that can charge while you operate it! USB charging is really neat, and my preferable way of charging 99.9% of the time.

I did manage to get started on settings last night while it was charging. I didn't get as much time as I would have liked today with it, but I did play with it some. I was unable to get my Metabones adapter despite being outside the UPS building where it is currently sitting. Monday. So for now I'm just using the entry level 50/1.8 on there. Not a bad lens at all. I can't wait to be able to try it with all of my L glass though. So far it's too early to tell. It was a pretty gloomy day here. I got a few images I'm playing with on my computer and they look good.

Image hosted by forum (821966) © randy98mtu THIS IS A LOW QUALITY PREVIEW. Please log in to see the good quality stuff.

Didn't get to do much more shooting yet, but I spent some time with the menus and such. Starting to get familiar. At first I couldn't figure out how to change the bracket settings and then I saw it's a simple left/right when you are on the bracketing setting and I actually like the way it is laid out much better. Noticing that left/right arrow there actually opened up a number of new settings all over the camera that I was unaware of. The ultimate is going to be to see how it performs with the Metabones and my L glass. I think the mere suggestion of swapping my Canon glass for Sony glass would land me in divorce court. Since the wife mentioned keeping the 5D3 and perhaps learning to use it herself, I'm hoping to figure out a way to keep the 5D4 and the a7Rii and sell the 5D3 and some other odds and ends I have around the house to pay for the cameras.

I was using the 5D4 and a7R side by side last night and the Sony focuses better, even comparing live view. It's nice being able to switch to MF so easy and have focus peaking with the automatic magnification while doing so. The Eye AF nailed my daughter's eye spot on at least once. I was shooting in my bedroom at night though, so I was at ISO 800 and not getting great shutter speeds. Definitely a big shift from the Canon ergonomics. Canon definitely has things better, but the Sony I think is workable. I just find that particularly the dial up by the shutter button that i use a lot on the Canon is impossible for my finger to find on the Sony. Same with the thumb wheel in the back and the menu button. Everything is just awkward to reach. At the end of the day if the focus is more accurate and the files are better, the ergonomics are not a deal breaker. All other things equal though, I'm sticking with Canon. So we'll see how the next week or 2 plays out (assuming I get some time to use them.)

randy98mtu wrote in post #18171496
Didn't get to do much more shooting yet, but I spent some time with the menus and such. Starting to get familiar. At first I couldn't figure out how to change the bracket settings and then I saw it's a simple left/right when you are on the bracketing setting and I actually like the way it is laid out much better. Noticing that left/right arrow there actually opened up a number of new settings all over the camera that I was unaware of. The ultimate is going to be to see how it performs with the Metabones and my L glass. I think the mere suggestion of swapping my Canon glass for Sony glass would land me in divorce court. Since the wife mentioned keeping the 5D3 and perhaps learning to use it herself, I'm hoping to figure out a way to keep the 5D4 and the a7Rii and sell the 5D3 and some other odds and ends I have around the house to pay for the cameras.

I was using the 5D4 and a7R side by side last night and the Sony focuses better, even comparing live view. It's nice being able to switch to MF so easy and have focus peaking with the automatic magnification while doing so. The Eye AF nailed my daughter's eye spot on at least once. I was shooting in my bedroom at night though, so I was at ISO 800 and not getting great shutter speeds. Definitely a big shift from the Canon ergonomics. Canon definitely has things better, but the Sony I think is workable. I just find that particularly the dial up by the shutter button that i use a lot on the Canon is impossible for my finger to find on the Sony. Same with the thumb wheel in the back and the menu button. Everything is just awkward to reach. At the end of the day if the focus is more accurate and the files are better, the ergonomics are not a deal breaker. All other things equal though, I'm sticking with Canon. So we'll see how the next week or 2 plays out (assuming I get some time to use them.)

The controls will take some time to get used to as its different from Canon. Many people who are familiar with Canon shoot with the Sony one or two times and write the ergonomics off without letting it grow on them. Just like any thing, you do need some time to develop the muscle memory to know where the controls are without looking at them. The spacing of things will throw you at fist because the body is physically smaller, but it has become a non-issue over time.

In practice, I've actually found Sony's controls to be better than Canon for the simple fact that you have more control wheels and buttons at your disposal, and because each of those wheels and buttons can be customized. With Canon you have two control wheels. The Sony has 4, so you can map ISO, SS, exposure compensation, an aperture to their own wheel and manipulate them on the fly. One of the control wheels is mapped to the exposure compensation by default and has hard stops, but you can map it to something else if you want. I would spend some time mapping the wheels and custom buttons, and also the function menu, which can be fully customized as well. That function menu is particularly useful since this is a mirrorless body and you access it via the viewfinder.

Sony menu's are confusing though....I still get lost trying to find functions that I don't happen to have mapped to a button or the function menu. The menus were revamped in Sony's newest bodies and hopefully they are pushed to the older bodies via firmware update.

Yeah, muscle memory takes time. My fingers couldn't find things on the Sony at first, but now after a year away from Canon, I found my fingers had a hard time finding the wheels on the 5D4.

I've even grown accustomed to the menu system everyone complains about. Have simply memorized where things are.

bpaulette wrote in post #18171898
Yeah, muscle memory takes time. My fingers couldn't find things on the Sony at first, but now after a year away from Canon, I found my fingers had a hard time finding the wheels on the 5D4.

I've even grown accustomed to the menu system everyone complains about. Have simply memorized where things are.

I'm the same. Things are quick and easy to me, I simply use it so much, I remember where everything is, and mostly of it in the FN menu. Access is fast and efficient with the exception of a few things (apps and formatting card)

Charlie wrote in post #18171953
:p I'm the same. Things are quick and easy to me, I simply use it so much, I remember where everything is, and mostly of it in the FN menu. Access is fast and efficient with the exception of a few things (apps and formatting card)

Hehe I can't remember where anything is that isn't in the FN menu.....mostly because I never have to go into the menus themselves since I've mapped 90% of everything I need.

The things I can never find when I need them are the stuff that can't be mapped. i.e. FF/APS-C toggle, live-view effect on/off etc.

Just found this thread. I also use the A7RII and the 5DIV but mostly on totally separate shoots.
Photography is my job now, it has grown out of a hobby years ago.

I shoot all of my real estate photos with the Sony (interiors with the Sony exclusively) while I do some exteriors with the Sony + 5DIV combo, having different lenses on them.

I shoot my Sony with a Metabones IV + Canon glass. Mostly the 16-35 f/4L IS. I also use a Yongnuo wireless controller for 3-4 off-camera flashes, all Canon flashes, the Yongnuo is the Canon version too but I only need it to fire, the Sony body does not control anything, I use manual power control.
This setup works great for me for several reasons. One was DR which now is close with the 5DIV. Another is the flippy screen. Before using the Sony I had to kneel down for the best interior shooting height, killing my knees on a long day. Now I just stand, flip the screen pointing upward and shoot while holding it at chest height (VF/Monitor set to Monitor only.)
I also use the Sony occasionally for family stuff, like a week ago for a Halloween Zoo visit, using the cheap 28-70mm light weight kit lens. But I at least as much use my Canon bodies too for casual stuff.

Now, where the Sony gets no use at all is the weddings/events side of my business. Granted all quality glass I own is Canon and I use those via the MB4, operation is far from reliable enough for events/weddings. There are so many things that prevent me from using the Sony for weddings/events. Occasionally it freezes with the MB4/Canon glass combo. Battery has to be taken out to reset. It's also slower to change things, AF points for instance. One SD card slot. These days I shoot weddings with a 5DIII and a 5DIV both have dual slots. Battery life on the Sony is short. Image review is slow, especially after a burst. Servo AF on the Sony/MB4 is worse than the 5D Canons. Weather sealing is another issue. And there are a few more...

So while I love all of my cameras for one reason or another, I use them for different purposes.

Interestingly though, the Sony's shots with my Tamron 150-600mm are really great for birding, as long as no fast AF is required. I actually like it more than any Canon image with the Tamron 150-600mm, in terms of IQ. But again, there are other factors that make me decide to use a Canon body with the Tamron, the sum of which trumps the IQ advantage of the Sony.

I too noticed short after buying the Sony that a lot of things had to be changed in the setup to make the camera work properly (and at a fair speed).

gabebalazs wrote in post #18172076
Now, where the Sony gets no use at all is the weddings/events side of my business. Granted all quality glass I own is Canon and I use those via the MB4, operation is far from reliable enough for events/weddings. There are so many things that prevent me from using the Sony for weddings/events. Occasionally it freezes with the MB4/Canon glass combo. Battery has to be taken out to reset. It's also slower to change things, AF points for instance. One SD card slot. These days I shoot weddings with a 5DIII and a 5DIV both have dual slots. Battery life on the Sony is short. Image review is slow, especially after a burst. Servo AF on the Sony/MB4 is worse than the 5D Canons. Weather sealing is another issue. And there are a few more...

A lot of this is rectified by using native glass....this is the main reason I stopped double dipping in two systems and went all Sony. I've shot a lot of events and a wedding not too long ago on the a7rII and it has worked fine....but with native glass. There were some upsides to having a DSLR handy, but to me there were bigger upsides to going all in on a native Sony system. It depends on what your need are though. With adapted lenses, AF in low light and with telephoto focal lengths was the issue for me.

mickeyb105 wrote in post #18168481
They'll put a refurbed a7s on Secondipity from time-to-time, and I've seen them in Adorama's used section rated 9 as well for what I thought was a pretty good price if you are willing to go that route.

Probably not us.....we rate used as follows; N D E+ E E- G V F X

HelenOster wrote in post #18173648
Probably not us.....we rate used as follows; N D E+ E E- G V F X

Sorry, it was E- . . . which I consider a 9/10 in real life. I just did the unofficial adjustment in my head