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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 29 Oct 2016 (Saturday) 21:04
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Long lens use without IS

 
Pagman
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Oct 29, 2016 21:04 |  #1

Does anyone use a long lens - over 300mm with fast moving subjects and fast shutter speeds but with IS/VR turned off? with the last two cameras I have owned I got into a habbit of turning the vibration control off if using a sh speed over 1/800sec, this was in fairness with two light lenses/cameras - a 55-250 STM and a Fuji X-S1 long lens bidge (the one with a normal type lens).
I was wondering if a 300mm prime that has no IS/VR installed is easy to hand hold with high enough shutter speeds between 1/800 and over?

P.


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ebiggs
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Oct 30, 2016 02:22 |  #2

At one time believe it or not, no lens had IS or VC or whatever. We got along just fine. Some of us are old enough to remember those days.


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john ­ crossley
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Oct 30, 2016 03:01 |  #3

Pagman wrote in post #18170687 (external link)
Does anyone use a long lens - over 300mm with fast moving subjects and fast shutter speeds but with IS/VR turned off? with the last two cameras I have owned I got into a habbit of turning the vibration control off if using a sh speed over 1/800sec, this was in fairness with two light lenses/cameras - a 55-250 STM and a Fuji X-S1 long lens bidge (the one with a normal type lens).
I was wondering if a 300mm prime that has no IS/VR installed is easy to hand hold with high enough shutter speeds between 1/800 and over?

P.

There is no right or wrong answer to this; it is all about personal preference. The only advantage of using IS with a fast shutter speed is that the image will be stabilised in the viewfinder so it is easier to keep the focus point on target.


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Bassat
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Oct 30, 2016 06:20 |  #4

I use my 1DIV/100-400Lc for daytime sports with the IS turned off. The lens focuses faster that way.




  
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Lenty007
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Oct 30, 2016 06:37 |  #5

IMHO it's all "in the wrist", about technique on how to hold or handle the equipment.

I used to play around for long with a Canon 500mm F/8 reflex lens (more mirror then lens) so obviously no IS available. Handhold I could go all the way to 1/60 and provide steady (OK)pictures, provided that one is aware of the low shutter and how to deal with it.

Today I still have a 400mm F/2.8 non-IS and a 800mm F/5.6 non-IS. Both of them are used with a gimbal head which is just perfect to follow any movement.

A 150-600mm I use exclusivly handhold but with IS on.

Good luck




  
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Ramon-uk
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Oct 30, 2016 06:54 |  #6

From Canon CPN "Tips & tricks"

'Image Stabilizer lenses and autofocus
When shooting with an image stabilised lens, especially a long telephoto, if you don’t need to use the IS because your shutter speed is fast enough to avoid camera shake, try turning it off for even faster autofocus. This is especially useful for fast moving subjects where absolute AF speed is important.'


I have found that if IS is on when tracking a subject with AIservo focus at a high frame rate with a high shutter speed then IS can sometimes cause more problems than it cures.

It is nice to have IS when you have to use slow shutter speeds but I certainly wouldn't say it is a necessity.

Ray




  
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SkipD
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Oct 30, 2016 07:11 |  #7

ebiggs wrote in post #18170802 (external link)
At one time believe it or not, no lens had IS or VC or whatever. We got along just fine. Some of us are old enough to remember those days.

"Back in the day", we had no image stabilization, no autofocus, and we even had to wind the film between shots to get a new frame behind the lens. I never had any problems with doing all that and nobody I knew then did either.


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BigAl007
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Oct 30, 2016 08:02 |  #8

Interesting question, until I got the 150-600 none of my lenses has IS/OS/VC, although I did rent the 100-400 L at times. I was shooting with unstabilised lenses, either cheap xx-300 zooms or a Centon 500mm f/8 mirror lens. I shot a wide variety of subject matter with these lenses, and still do with the Sigma 28-300mm. If my subject will allow the use of high shutter speeds then I tend to get more keepers than I would if I needed to use a much slower shutter speed. When it comes to using the 150-600mm or the 100-400mm before that I would usually keep the stabilisation turned on even when switching to a much faster shutter speed. I only ever rented the 100-400 for airshows, and the majority of the ones I attend feature far more propellor driven aircraft than jets, so I am usually shooting at 1/160s or slower. At those shutter speeds I need all the help I can get, so use the stabilisation in mode 2. When a jet is displaying I will up the shutter speed to as fast as I can get while still using a sensible level of ISO, usually I aim for between 1/1000 and 1/2000 although I would have no worries about going to 1/8000 if the conditions allowed it. I usually leave the stabilisation on in this situation, since it also helps in keeping the subject well framed, with the AF point where I would want it. The thing is though that a jet aircraft, even one travelling at 500 Kts plus, is actually a very easy subject for the AF system to track, even when heading directly towards you. Jets, and most other aircraft types, regardless of speed, travel in very straight lines, at very constant speeds so as far as the AF system is concerned they are simple subjects to track. So I really don't think that the slight reduction in AF system speeds caused by the use of the stabilisation system is going to adversely affect your keeper rate. The only aircraft types that I can think of that might be able to stress the AF system are the competitive aerobatic types from the likes of Pitts, Extra, Sbach and the likes. Since these are all prop aircraft I am going to be shooting them at 1/160 or slower anyway for prop blur reasons, although with some of them being able to roll at in excess of 540 degrees/second wingtip blur can then become an issue.

Just remember that it is subjects that change velocity (i.e. speed AND direction) quickly that are likely to be difficult for the AF system to track, and so may benefit from turning off the stabilisation system. But you still have the challenge of keeping the AF system pointed at the correct point, so as with all things photographic YOU have to assess which gives you better results. I know that JohnF finds that he gets better results for his BiF photography with the IS off on all his lenses, except maybe the 100-400 V2 in Mode 3, at just about all shutter speeds. I find that for aircraft I get the opposite, far better results with stabilisation, in Mode 2, even at higher shutter speeds. So John advocates turning it off, and I advocate turning it on, and for each of us we are both correct, since we both have evidence to back up our positions, the number of keepers that we shoot.

Alan


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Immaculens
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Oct 30, 2016 08:19 |  #9

I think the below are interesting... when I shoot moving subjects past 400mm (which I do - a lot) I find it hard enough getting them in my VF  :p but when I do - I am grateful for OS.

I simply have not tried shooting with OS turned off. Sounds like a good experiment for flying ducks in the winter... ;-)a

john crossley wrote in post #18170823 (external link)
There is no right or wrong answer to this; it is all about personal preference. The only advantage of using IS with a fast shutter speed is that the image will be stabilised in the viewfinder so it is easier to keep the focus point on target.

Ramon-uk wrote in post #18170887 (external link)
From Canon CPN "Tips & tricks"

'Image Stabilizer lenses and autofocus
When shooting with an image stabilised lens, especially a long telephoto, if you don’t need to use the IS because your shutter speed is fast enough to avoid camera shake, try turning it off for even faster autofocus. This is especially useful for fast moving subjects where absolute AF speed is important.'


I have found that if IS is on when tracking a subject with AIservo focus at a high frame rate with a high shutter speed then IS can sometimes cause more problems than it cures.

It is nice to have IS when you have to use slow shutter speeds but I certainly wouldn't say it is a necessity.

Ray


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7Dmk II gripped | 150-600 (Σ) OS C | 55-250 IS STM | 100L f/2.8 IS Macro | 15-85 IS | 50 f/1.8 STM | 30 Σ f/1.4 'A'
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Bassat
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Oct 30, 2016 08:48 |  #10

Immaculens wrote in post #18170924 (external link)
I think the below are interesting... when I shoot moving subjects past 400mm (which I do - a lot) I find it hard enough getting them in my VF  :p but when I do - I am grateful for OS.

I simply have not tried shooting with OS turned off. Sounds like a good experiment for flying ducks in the winter... ;-)a

If that doesn't work, try 12g 3" mags w/#6. :)




  
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Pagman
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Oct 30, 2016 11:15 |  #11

I was noticing a difference with IS on and fast shutter speeds somehow the shift in the elements was causing a slight double image type thing almost like shake, after turning the IS off and using it(different lens/cams) at the same sh speeds as before, the effect had gone and the images where clear.
I had read somewere before about the way IS can affect the image path over certain shutter speeds.

I just wondered if hand holding a long heavy lens on a body with a combined weight of over 3.5 pounds compared to hand holding a cam of half that weight, would it need a different tech ie - faster shutter speed than before?

P.


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john ­ crossley
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Oct 30, 2016 11:55 |  #12

Pagman wrote in post #18171050 (external link)
I just wondered if hand holding a long heavy lens on a body with a combined weight of over 3.5 pounds compared to hand holding a cam of half that weight, would it need a different tech ie - faster shutter speed than before?

P.

That all depends on the person holding the camera. Some people would need to change their technique and others wouldn't.


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Gungnir
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Oct 30, 2016 12:32 |  #13

Non committal replies help no one.

Find the balance point of the body&lens combo and adjust to facilitate that hand placement.

Balance = stable weight which is significantly easier to control. You want to aim for minimal muscle input.


Steve
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BigAl007
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Oct 30, 2016 13:47 |  #14

Bassat wrote in post #18170944 (external link)
If that doesn't work, try 12g 3" mags w/#6. :)

Not here you won't, it's non toxic shot only for wildfowl even where lead would be legal for other species. So if you want to use those shot sizes with more than 1/4 choke in the gun it's going to be Remington TBI cartridges only at around £5.00 per shot vmad. Only really cost effective answer is steel, so No4's at the minimum and relatively open chokes or a steel proofed gun. I know someone who did go the TBI route, so that he could keep shooting his old Holland and Holland. At the moment I get woken up most mornings by the greylags on the farmers field next door. I don't think the neighbours would like it too much if I shot a couple though, the field is not really big enough and is surrounded by homes.

Alan


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BigAl007
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Oct 30, 2016 14:05 |  #15

Pagman wrote in post #18171050 (external link)
I was noticing a difference with IS on and fast shutter speeds somehow the shift in the elements was causing a slight double image type thing almost like shake, after turning the IS off and using it(different lens/cams) at the same sh speeds as before, the effect had gone and the images where clear.
I had read somewere before about the way IS can affect the image path over certain shutter speeds.

I just wondered if hand holding a long heavy lens on a body with a combined weight of over 3.5 pounds compared to hand holding a cam of half that weight, would it need a different tech ie - faster shutter speed than before?

P.

The thing is were you using it with the IS in Mode 1, which doesn't allow panning? Although the faster shutter speed should actually negate that issue. At least that was my experience with the original Tamron 150-600mm lens, which doesn't have mode 2 stabilisation, and with the original firmware didn't turn the VC off automatically when it detected panning. The only shots that I got that were OK with the VC turned on and panning were the ones taken at shutter speeds faster than 1/1000. All of my shots at 1/160 while panning were badly affected by feedback from the VC system. I would also be surprised if using any sort of optical stabilisation caused issues at higher shutter speeds, DSLR's all still use focal plane shutters, so the fastest time it takes to expose the whole frame is the same as the flash sync speed. At faster shutter speeds the sensor is exposed as a traveling slit. Even if you have an electronic global shutter system, as you find in compacts and bridge cameras, any blurring effect that you can see at a high shutter speed would also have to be present when shooting at a lower speed. The movement of the lens optical systems are independent of the cameras shutter system. Could you post the images that show this effect of blurring at a high shutter speed, and no blur at low with the optical stabilisation used in the correct mode for the subject? And of course with the full EXIF intact please.

Alan


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Long lens use without IS
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