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Thread started 23 Nov 2016 (Wednesday) 10:33
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Puzzling 1DIV battery weirdness

 
Archibald
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Nov 23, 2016 19:15 |  #16

A bit more fuel to the battery conditioning fire.
https://dottech.org …to-condition-it-properly/ (external link)


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Nov 23, 2016 20:59 |  #17

Archibald wrote in post #18193018 (external link)
A bit more fuel to the battery conditioning fire.
https://dottech.org …to-condition-it-properly/ (external link)

Okay, but since my problem is not related to conditioning new batteries, I don't really see how it's relevant?


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Nov 23, 2016 21:09 |  #18

I have a good idea! If you buy me a plane ticket, I'll bring over my batteries and charger for you to test out. I can cook! And my wife is tired of me being home doing nothing for the past 3 weeks. Only 9 to go! I'd be happy to come help you out.




  
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Nov 23, 2016 21:46 |  #19

Archibald wrote in post #18192786 (external link)
What is the source? I too have seen this many times, but have doubts about the truth of it.

Note that in several sources it states that fully discharging a battery harms it. I think this is true.


I think what the Canon manual means is, don't recharge if it's still half full in the beginning. Wait until you use the battery before recharging.

I have seen this interpreted to mean "run the battery to zero" but I don;'t think this is what is meant. It is an understandable assumption especially for anyone that remember NiCd batteries.


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Nov 23, 2016 21:48 |  #20

Levina, what's the temps in your neck of the woods these days? Are you shooting out doors?


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Nov 24, 2016 00:52 |  #21

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18193082 (external link)
Okay, but since my problem is not related to conditioning new batteries, I don't really see how it's relevant?

I'm sorry, Levina, but I don't know the answer to the problem. I doubt you will get a quick answer unless someone with a similar experience responds. These gadgets are all so complicated now, simple logic does not apply. Batteries have complex electronics, they are not just dumb cells. It sounds like the 1D4 charger also is pretty complicated. So interpreting battery/charger behavior is not straightforward. I suggest for now getting more experience with the batteries to see what happens next, and maybe something will be revealed.


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Nov 24, 2016 05:56 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #22

Let me shortly repeat what I understood from your description:
The battery from 1DIII was perfectly OK. You could get 2140 shots from it.
Then you have put it in the charger, which came with 1DIV.
Now you can only get 1100 with a fully charged battery.

I think there is something wrong with the 1DIV charger.

First lets focus only on 1DIII battery and 1DIII camera. Let's do this one step at the time.
You could do simple test. Put the 1DIII battery in 1DIII camera and discharge it fully-use it till camera switches off.
Then put the 1DIII battery in 1DIII charger and fully charge it. Then do the test with your 1DIII camera, if you can get the same number of photos as you use to get.
If yes there is nothing wrong with your 1DIII battery.
If no, there could be only one reason. The 1DIV charger somehow screwed the 1DIII battery circuit. The battery has an electronic circuit inside which reads the battery voltage and signals the charger, when the battery is full. The same circuit also signals the voltage to the camera so the camera knows the status of the battery.


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Nov 24, 2016 06:02 |  #23

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18193113 (external link)
Levina, what's the temps in your neck of the woods these days? Are you shooting out doors?

I am shooting out doors but weather is pretty mild still, Jake. It's 8ÂșC right now and I don't think I've been out in anything lower than that these past few weeks.

Archibald wrote in post #18193208 (external link)
I'm sorry, Levina, but I don't know the answer to the problem. I doubt you will get a quick answer unless someone with a similar experience responds. These gadgets are all so complicated now, simple logic does not apply. Batteries have complex electronics, they are not just dumb cells. It sounds like the 1D4 charger also is pretty complicated. So interpreting battery/charger behavior is not straightforward. I suggest for now getting more experience with the batteries to see what happens next, and maybe something will be revealed.

Ah right. I thought maybe I had missed something.

Well, as to getting more experience with the batteries, as the 1DIV battery was down to 10%, I decided to run it through a calibration/recharge cycle (as this is the battery that -according to the camera- always needs calibration). All went well until the third green light began to blink. After a while all lights went out and the CAL/CHARGE light came on, meaning the battery was too hot (and it was pretty warm indeed). After the battery had cooled down, I tried again and now it recharged until full without further problems.

I'm using the charger that came with my 1DIII, by the way, as I think the charger that came with my 1DIV is the culprit here.


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Nov 24, 2016 06:12 |  #24

Mathmans wrote in post #18193289 (external link)
Let me shortly repeat what I understood from your description:
The battery from 1DIII was perfectly OK. You could get 2140 shots from it.
Then you have put it in the charger, which came with 1DIV.
Now you can only get 1100 with a fully charged battery.

I think there is something wrong with the 1DIV charger.

That's exactly what happened and yes, I too think it's the 1DIV charger that screwed up the 1DIII battery (as well as the 1DIV battery).

First lets focus only on 1DIII battery and 1DIII camera. Let's do this one step at the time.
You could do simple test. Put the 1DIII battery in 1DIII camera and discharge it fully-use it till camera switches off.
Then put the 1DIII battery in 1DIII charger and fully charge it. Then do the test with your 1DIII camera, if you can get the same number of photos as you use to get.
If yes there is nothing wrong with your 1DIII battery.
If no, there could be only one reason. The 1DIV charger somehow screwed the 1DIII battery circuit. The battery has an electronic circuit inside which reads the battery voltage and signals the charger, when the battery is full. The same circuit also signals the voltage to the camera so the camera knows the status of the battery.

I did recharge the 1DIII battery in his own 1DIII charger and it hasn't changed anything. I'm not sure the battery was completely depleted though, so I will do the test again the way you suggest.


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Nov 24, 2016 11:07 as a reply to  @ Levina de Ruijter's post |  #25

It could be that the battery circuit stops charging before the battery is fully charged or
the circuit says "battery empty" before the battery is really empty.
In either way the battery is working with only half of the charge.
Lets hope that a few recharging cycles will put the battery back to life.


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Nov 24, 2016 11:38 |  #26

Mathmans wrote in post #18193522 (external link)
It could be that the battery circuit stops charging before the battery is fully charged or
the circuit says "battery empty" before the battery is really empty.
In either way the battery is working with only half of the charge.
Lets hope that a few recharging cycles will put the battery back to life.

I agree that the most likely cause is malfunctioning circuitry in the battery and that there is actually nothing wrong with the battery itself.

Would be nice if a few recharging cycles would fix this but to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in it. I do wish there were an actual REFRESH button on the charger. IIRC my 1DIIN charger had one. But now there's just a button for calibration that only works if the battery actually needs calibration. My 1DIII battery doesn't, so I need to click the shutter 1100 times to deplete a fully charged battery and since I'm not willing to shoot blanks, this is going to take some time.

I am going to contact the shop I bought the camera from though. I have a year warranty on camera and accessories and their customer service is truly excellent, so I'm sure they'll fix this one way or the other.


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Nov 25, 2016 13:47 as a reply to  @ Levina de Ruijter's post |  #27

I agree; tell the shop about the problem. I think you battery and the 1DIV charger should be replaced.


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Post edited over 2 years ago by Levina de Ruijter.
     
Mar 03, 2017 02:31 |  #28

I'm reviving this thread because there's been a development and I'm baffled.

Three months ago I did what Mathmans suggested: I put the 1D3 battery in the 1D3 but it just emptied way too quick. 600 shots and down to 30%, something like that.

So then I decided to give that 1D3 battery some time, doing a good number of full cycles with the 1D4 (and recharging each time with the good charger), hoping it would reset the chip. That didn't work. The battery still gives me only about 1100 shots with the 1D4.

I now thought it was time to finally go to the shop. But yesterday I thought I would try to put the 1D3 battery back in the 1D3 and see if maybe there was a change. Battery was down to 80% so before putting it in the 1D3 I charged it to 100% first. And then I started shooting. Well, what do you know, I am now at 3300 shots (raw) and I have 68% power left! I am completely baffled by this... Anybody have an explanation maybe?


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Mar 03, 2017 03:30 |  #29

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18290433 (external link)
I'm reviving this thread because there's been a development and I'm baffled.

Three months ago I did what Mathmans suggested: I put the 1D3 battery in the 1D3 but it just emptied way too quick. 600 shots and down to 30%, something like that.

So then I decided to give that 1D3 battery some time, doing a good number of full cycles with the 1D4 (and recharging each time with the good charger), hoping it would reset the chip. That didn't work. The battery still gives me only about 1100 shots with the 1D4.

I now thought it was time to finally go to the shop. But yesterday I thought I would try to put the 1D3 battery back in the 1D3 and see if maybe there was a change. Battery was down to 80% so before putting it in the 1D3 I charged it to 100% first. And then I started shooting. Well, what do you know, I am now at 3300 shots (raw) and I have 68% power left! I am completely baffled by this... Anybody have an explanation maybe?

This thread interests me because something similar happened to me this past Monday. Before I left the house to head off to a local bird rookery, I checked the charge of the battery I had in my 1D IV at the time. It said "75%"... I only took a handful of shots when I noticed, the battery had drained down far enough that the battery charge indicator was blinking. I usually get hours of shooting before I have to change batteries... and I don't remember ever changing one when I started out with 75%. The battery in question was the newer LP-E4N 1D X battery.

So... not the same but close. The only thing I can think is that I charged both batteries a few weeks ago and I think the LP-E4N still had quite a bit of charge left in it. I don't recall what the percentage was but not less than 50%. My normal pattern is to wait until the batteries have drained down to less than 30% before charging but I had a longer outing planned and wanted to have both batteries fully charged just in case.

Anyway, I found it very odd as well.

I realize I'm not answering your questions, Levina. I am sympathizing, however. ;)


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Mar 03, 2017 09:50 as a reply to  @ Phoenixkh's post |  #30

I'm sorry to hear that you are having battery trouble as well, Kim. Although it's always better to know one is not alone with problems like these! :-P
I hope you get it worked out!

In the mean time, I went out this afternoon for just an hour. It was drizzling steadily and it was cold and when I came home stats were: 3462 shots and 53% left. Well, after an hour in the warmth of my house the camera and battery had warmed up and now it told me: 3462 shots and 61% left.

I then took more shots and now I'm at 3704 shots and still have 60% left.

This is crazy!

Question: on a fully charged and well performing LP-E4 battery, how many shots (raw) can a 1D3 do? What is normal?


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