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Thread started 02 Dec 2016 (Friday) 11:03
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70D, 80D, 7D Mk II focus system best?

 
Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 11:03 |  #1

I will probably be picking up a refurb body to go with either the Sigma 150-500 C or the Canon 100-400 IS II. I'll be shooting BIF, insects, landscapes. For action/wildlife it looks like the major difference in these three cameras is in the number of cross type points (19, 45 and 65 respectively). In addition, the 80D has Digic 6 dual processors. I'm using a 6D now. Am I right in thinking that the 80D looks better than the 7D Mk II? Is there anything a 7D Mk II does much better than the 70D 0r 80D? A pro friend uses 70D's and loves them.

Thanks for any insights.


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Bassat
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Dec 02, 2016 11:30 |  #2

You've gotten some data transposed. The 7DII has dual DIGIC image processors. The 80D has a single DIGIC 6 image processor. I've never used, or even touched, a 7DII. The number of image processors has no effect on AF or IQ. It does affect FPS and write-to-card (buffer clearance) speed.

I have owned the 70D. I currently own the 80D; I've had it a week.

Comparing the 70D & 80D. The 80D has more AF points, spread over a larger area, than the 70D. Moderate improvement for the way I shoot. YMMV.

The 70D could AF at 0EV. The 80D can AF a -3EV. To me, this is huge. I have thoroughly tested my new 80D with my: 28 1.8, 35 IS, 50 STM, and 85 1.8. All of them are dead-on with no MFA (My 85 1.8 requires -10 on my 1DIV). What does this mean, realistically? It means the 80D will almost instantly lock ACCURATE focus in light (0EV, 1EV) the 70D was struggling in, and missing in. It means that it can continue to focus (albeit, more slowly) as the light fades another 3 stops, well past where the 70D quits trying.

I have not tested the 80D with my zooms, or with AI-Servo. My gut feeling, from a few random sessions, is that the 80D is more responsive than the 70D.




  
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mwsilver
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Post edited over 2 years ago by mwsilver.
     
Dec 02, 2016 11:58 |  #3

Tom Camilleri wrote in post #18201098 (external link)
I will probably be picking up a refurb body to go with either the Sigma 150-500 C or the Canon 100-400 IS II. I'll be shooting BIF, insects, landscapes. For action/wildlife it looks like the major difference in these three cameras is in the number of cross type points (19, 45 and 65 respectively). In addition, the 80D has Digic 6 dual processors. I'm using a 6D now. Am I right in thinking that the 80D looks better than the 7D Mk II? Is there anything a 7D Mk II does much better than the 70D 0r 80D? A pro friend uses 70D's and loves them.

Thanks for any insights.

For BIF, the 7DII is still the better choice, mostly due to its better AF system, more focus points, faster fps and more configuration options. The 80D is a less robust body but it does have a couple of advantages. It has a new 24 mp sensor, and although it only has 45 focus points, 27 of them are available with a maximum aperture of f/8. That means when using a slower long lens like the Canon 100-400 L and a 1.4x teleconverter, with the resulting maximum aperture of f/8 you'll still have 27 focus points available for AF. Under the same circumstances, the 7D2 only has the single center point available at f/8.


Mark
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Dec 02, 2016 13:22 |  #4

The 80 D's f/8 advantage is clear with the 100-400 L IS USM II along with the 1.4× Extender III, since you get the full set of 27 AF points. I'm not so sure about how many points you get with the Sigma 150-600 combined with the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter, or any other converter for that matter. I have seen some say that with lenses that are not in Canon's list of supported lenses that you are back to only the center AF point. Also there was a firmware update from Sigma, and it seemed to suggest that the lens is only supposed to be able to operate with the Sigma 1401 converter. Although I have the lens my body doesn't have f/8 capable AF, so I haven't bothered with getting an extender.

Alan


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Bassat
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Dec 02, 2016 14:57 |  #5

mwsilver wrote in post #18201142 (external link)
For BIF, the 7DII is still the better choice, mostly due to its better AF system, more focus points, faster fps and more configuration options. The 80D is a less robust body but it does have a couple of advantages. It has a new 24 mp sensor, and although it only has 45 focus points, 27 of them are available with a maximum aperture of f/8. That means when using a slower long lens like the Canon 100-400 L and a 1.4x teleconverter, with the resulting maximum aperture of f/8 you'll still have 27 focus points available for AF. Under the same circumstances, the 7D2 only has the single center point available at f/8.


BigAl007 wrote in post #18201244 (external link)
The 80 D's f/8 advantage is clear with the 100-400 L IS USM II along with the 1.4× Extender III, since you get the full set of 27 AF points. I'm not so sure about how many points you get with the Sigma 150-600 combined with the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter, or any other converter for that matter. I have seen some say that with lenses that are not in Canon's list of supported lenses that you are back to only the center AF point. Also there was a firmware update from Sigma, and it seemed to suggest that the lens is only supposed to be able to operate with the Sigma 1401 converter. Although I have the lens my body doesn't have f/8 capable AF, so I haven't bothered with getting an extender.

Alan

No it does not.

To get 27 f/8 AF points with the 80D you must mount either:
100-400II with 1.4X III, BOTH 200-400 w/2.0X III, BOTH
Any other f/8 combination has one AF point at f/8, just like the 7DII.




  
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Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 16:18 |  #6

Bassat wrote in post #18201116 (external link)
You've gotten some data transposed. The 7DII has dual DIGIC image processors. The 80D has a single DIGIC 6 image processor. I've never used, or even touched, a 7DII. The number of image processors has no effect on AF or IQ. It does affect FPS and write-to-card (buffer clearance) speed.

I have owned the 70D. I currently own the 80D; I've had it a week.

Comparing the 70D & 80D. The 80D has more AF points, spread over a larger area, than the 70D. Moderate improvement for the way I shoot. YMMV.

The 70D could AF at 0EV. The 80D can AF a -3EV. To me, this is huge. I have thoroughly tested my new 80D with my: 28 1.8, 35 IS, 50 STM, and 85 1.8. All of them are dead-on with no MFA (My 85 1.8 requires -10 on my 1DIV). What does this mean, realistically? It means the 80D will almost instantly lock ACCURATE focus in light (0EV, 1EV) the 70D was struggling in, and missing in. It means that it can continue to focus (albeit, more slowly) as the light fades another 3 stops, well past where the 70D quits trying.

I have not tested the 80D with my zooms, or with AI-Servo. My gut feeling, from a few random sessions, is that the 80D is more responsive than the 70D.

Thanks for sharing your experience. The low-light 80D advantages you mention are compelling, so I have ruled out the 70D and am now pretty much comparing 80D vs. 7D Mk II.


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Dec 02, 2016 16:26 |  #7

the 7DII also has AF point expansion. to give you 4 extra points to assist or 8 to help in tracking subjects.
Spot AF point
the 80D does not offer those.


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Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 16:39 |  #8

mwsilver wrote in post #18201142 (external link)
For BIF, the 7DII is still the better choice, mostly due to its better AF system, more focus points, faster fps and more configuration options. The 80D is a less robust body but it does have a couple of advantages. It has a new 24 mp sensor, and although it only has 45 focus points, 27 of them are available with a maximum aperture of f/8. That means when using a slower long lens like the Canon 100-400 L and a 1.4x teleconverter, with the resulting maximum aperture of f/8 you'll still have 27 focus points available for AF. Under the same circumstances, the 7D2 only has the single center point available at f/8.

Thanks for reply. Focus points available at f/8 sounds like a huge advantage for the 80D but it might be a question of what's good enough. I want to be able to use a teleconverter so for me this would be important. 7D Mk II AF system might be overall better, even though perhaps not in this situation. It's still a contender with higher frame rate (for BIF, hand-held macro) and for AF in less extreme applications.


40D, Digital Rebel 300D; EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS, EF 28-135 IS, EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, 85mm f/1.8, 28mm f/1.8, Speedlite 380 EX, Sekonic L758DR w/target, Manfrotto 3021 w/3030 pan-tilt head & quick release plate, POTN Strap

  
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Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 16:48 |  #9

BigAl007 wrote in post #18201244 (external link)
The 80 D's f/8 advantage is clear with the 100-400 L IS USM II along with the 1.4× Extender III, since you get the full set of 27 AF points. I'm not so sure about how many points you get with the Sigma 150-600 combined with the Sigma 1401 1.4× converter, or any other converter for that matter. I have seen some say that with lenses that are not in Canon's list of supported lenses that you are back to only the center AF point. Also there was a firmware update from Sigma, and it seemed to suggest that the lens is only supposed to be able to operate with the Sigma 1401 converter. Although I have the lens my body doesn't have f/8 capable AF, so I haven't bothered with getting an extender.

Alan

Thanks for reply. I have also seen some posts which suggested to me that the TC-1401 was needed with the Sigma 150-600 C but did not clearly state as much. Whether or not the Sigma will use full compliment of f/8 available AF points is also something I will need to ask Sigma. On a crop body the extender would be fun but reach is adequate without it.


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Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 16:55 |  #10

Bassat wrote in post #18201341 (external link)
No it does not.

To get 27 f/8 AF points with the 80D you must mount either:
100-400II with 1.4X III, BOTH 200-400 w/2.0X III, BOTH
Any other f/8 combination has one AF point at f/8, just like the 7DII.

Thanks again. This is good to know. I think I'll probably find that the Sigma 150-600 will only use one AF point at f/8.


40D, Digital Rebel 300D; EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS, EF 28-135 IS, EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, 85mm f/1.8, 28mm f/1.8, Speedlite 380 EX, Sekonic L758DR w/target, Manfrotto 3021 w/3030 pan-tilt head & quick release plate, POTN Strap

  
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Post edited over 2 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Dec 02, 2016 17:02 |  #11

I have not used the 80D yet, but 7DII on paper beats the 80D for fast AF and action shooting with the one exception of the T-con capability.

I will add (and again, i have not shot an 80D yet) that the f/8 T-Con AF point advantage that the 5D4 has goes even further, not only do you get all those AF points, but the addition of the t-Con DOES NOT automatically slow AF speed.

On the 5D4 I appear to be getting this aspect of the T-Con speed advantage with ANY T-con/lens used. Not just the few specific combos that allow all AF points to work.


If the 80D is like the 5D4 in this regard, it will rock with T-Cons.


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Tom ­ Camilleri
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Dec 02, 2016 17:08 |  #12

05Xrunner wrote in post #18201396 (external link)
the 7DII also has AF point expansion. to give you 4 extra points to assist or 8 to help in tracking subjects.
Spot AF point
the 80D does not offer those.

Thanks for sharing. The extra points could certainly help for BIF.


40D, Digital Rebel 300D; EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS, EF 28-135 IS, EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, 85mm f/1.8, 28mm f/1.8, Speedlite 380 EX, Sekonic L758DR w/target, Manfrotto 3021 w/3030 pan-tilt head & quick release plate, POTN Strap

  
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Bassat
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Dec 02, 2016 17:12 |  #13

Tom Camilleri wrote in post #18201391 (external link)
Thanks for sharing your experience. The low-light 80D advantages you mention are compelling, so I have ruled out the 70D and am now pretty much comparing 80D vs. 7D Mk II.

I debated between 80D & 7DII. The 80D has all the available adjustments to AI-Servo AF the 7DII has, they are just not grouped into the different 'cases' available on the 7DII. The 7DII has more AF points, and is powered by a faster computer. I selected the 80D for two reasons.

1.) My 7 year old 1DIV has all the AF power I need. I am sure (hoping?) the 80D can at least match the 1DIV is speed /accuracy. Still testing.

2). The 80D has more dynamic range, which translates into more exposure latitude to me. Even after 40 years of this, I still miss, sometimes. Hard to believe, I know! :)

05Xrunner wrote in post #18201396 (external link)
the 7DII also has AF point expansion. to give you 4 extra points to assist or 8 to help in tracking subjects.
Spot AF point
the 80D does not offer those.

The 80D does not have 'spot'. The 80D's 'zone' AF is very much like the AF w/8 surrounding points of the 7DII. The 4 extra points is unique to the 7DII.

Tom Camilleri wrote in post #18201423 (external link)
Thanks again. This is good to know. I think I'll probably find that the Sigma 150-600 will only use one AF point at f/8.

My 100-400L (original) and 1.4X II only get one center f/8 point. My 70-200 f/4L IS and 2X II only get one center f/8 point. My guess is your Sigma will fair the same. One isn't 27, but it is way better than NONE!




  
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Bassat
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Dec 02, 2016 17:16 |  #14

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18201430 (external link)
I have not used the 80D yet, but 7DII on paper beats the 80D for fast AF and action shooting with the one exception of the T-con capability.

I will add (and again, i have not shot an 80D yet) that the f/8 T-Con AF point advantage that the 5D4 has goes even further, not only do you get all those AF points, but the addition of the t-Con DOES NOT automatically slow AF speed.

On the 5D4 I appear to be getting this aspect of the T-Con speed advantage with ANY T-con/lens used. Not just the few specific combos that allow all AF points to work.


If the 80D is like the 5D4 in this regard, it will rock with T-Cons.

Jake, does the f/8 stuff on the 5D4 apply to the version II converters? So far, I've only used the 80D w/70-200 f/4 and 1.4XII. I noticed no slow-down in AF or decrease in tracking/accuracy. Very little shooting so far, I'm still working on testing my fast primes, and still only have one arm.




  
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mwsilver
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Dec 02, 2016 18:33 |  #15

Bassat wrote in post #18201341 (external link)
No it does not.

To get 27 f/8 AF points with the 80D you must mount either:
100-400II with 1.4X III, BOTH 200-400 w/2.0X III, BOTH
Any other f/8 combination has one AF point at f/8, just like the 7DII.

Not sure How the "No it does not" comment relates to either my quote of BigAl007"s. We all three agree you can utilize a 1.4x extender with the Canon EF 100-400mm on the 80D and still have AF access to 27 focus points. Maybe I'm missing the point of your post.


Mark
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70D, 80D, 7D Mk II focus system best?
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