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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 24 Nov 2016 (Thursday) 14:21
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Another 5DSR vs. 5D4 thread

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Dec 03, 2016 17:52 |  #16

A re-post, but here it is;

The 5D4 will give you;

Better image quality:
- better darks and highlights
- more dynamic range
- less / more pleasing grain/noise in low light high ISO settings.

You can shoot in much darker environments.

Improved AF:
- Vast number of AF points over wider array for better ease of composition.
- With the right optics, all of those AF points will function @ f/8 (5D3 only center with expansion past f/5.6)
- Virtually every one of the 60 plus AF points will function better, in low and normal light than the 5D3.
- Tracking in AI Servo will be the best Canon has to offer.
- Live view AF is amazing!
- No performance reduction built in when using Teleconverters (this is unlike any previous model)

Lots of ergonomic upgrades:
- Touch screen for fast set up/menus and live view AF
- AF Zone selector
- More customizable buttons

- Faster frames per second.

Built in Doodads:
- Wifi
- GPS

.. and more! ;)

5DS will offer:
- More MP/Detail.


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Post edited over 4 years ago by digital paradise.
     
Dec 03, 2016 18:06 |  #17

LOL. I just read this post in another thread. Thanks.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Dec 04, 2016 04:35 |  #18

John_T wrote in post #18202236 (external link)
How much actual photography time have you actually spent with both bodies?

I've shot 800mm (real mm; not "equivalent") hand-held with 1.4 micron pixels in sunlight at 1/2000, a pixel density that would be 450MP at FF, and had sharp results. I shoot hundreds of photos a week on the 7D2, with pixels the same size as the 5Dsr, and have had no problems created by the pixel density. In fact, I use TCs liberally to get more effective pixel density for my lenses.

The actual body could only be an issue if it had some kind of excess mirror slap that other cameras don't have (and the hand-holding technique is weak, or the camera is oscillating on a tripod), or the supplied power to an IS mechanism in the lens was faulty. Otherwise, it's all down to pixel density.

Regardless, anyone who understands imaging well knows that the higher pixel density, AOTBE, can never cause more blur to the image or subject; only to the non-equivalent and illusory 100% pixel views, which are not valid for comparing different pixel densities. The fact that a higher pixel density makes it easier for you to identify camera shake or subject blur does *not* mean that it makes the image worse, because larger pixels obscure details themselves, automatically. The larger pixels have the motion blur *and* the big-pixel blur.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Dec 04, 2016 04:51 |  #19

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18202345 (external link)
A re-post, but here it is;

The 5D4 will give you;

[...]

- No performance reduction built in when using Teleconverters (this is unlike any previous model)

5D series model, or Canon model?

I've read that the 1Dx series has a way of dealing with series III TCs that it does not slow the AF down unnecessarily, so I'm wondering if this is the same thing you're talking about (the 5D4 is now at the 1Dx communication level), or if this is some optical AF improvement in the camera.

It would be interesting to see how taping the pins affects AF speed on these cameras, vs other cameras.

Does anyone know if anyone has tried tricked f/11 AF on the 5D4? I came close to buying one when it first came out, but did not do it. If I knew it could AF at f/11 in ideal conditions (good contrast and light), my interest might be re-kindled. I do, however, hate having the false f-numbers and focal lengths in the EXIFs when a non-reported TC is used.




  
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Dec 04, 2016 05:14 |  #20

John Sheehy wrote in post #18202745 (external link)
[...]

5D series model, or Canon model?

I've read that the 1Dx series has a way of dealing with series III TCs that it does not slow the AF down unnecessarily, so I'm wondering if this is the same thing you're talking about (the 5D4 is now at the 1Dx communication level), or if this is some optical AF improvement in the camera.

It would be interesting to see how taping the pins affects AF speed on these cameras, vs other cameras.

Does anyone know if anyone has tried tricked f/11 AF on the 5D4? I came close to buying one when it first came out, but did not do it. If I knew it could AF at f/11 in ideal conditions (good contrast and light), my interest might be re-kindled. I do, however, hate having the false f-numbers and focal lengths in the EXIFs when a non-reported TC is used.

I am more curious in how many AF points are active on the 5D4 at F8 with stacked TC's, namely EF III 1.4x and 2x ( connected via an EF12 exrendion tube ) on a 300 2.8 IS II.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Dec 04, 2016 21:42 |  #21

John Sheehy wrote in post #18202745 (external link)
[...]

5D series model, or Canon model?

I've read that the 1Dx series has a way of dealing with series III TCs that it does not slow the AF down unnecessarily, so I'm wondering if this is the same thing you're talking about ....

You are correct this is what I am talking about, however I am unaware of this being in the 1Dx (and I still don't think the 1Dx is the 5D4's equal in this dept. )

I am well aware of the 1Dx2 having this feature, but I did not consider it to be a "previous model" as the two cameras are of the same generation. I should have been more clear.

- With the 5D4 and it's sibling 1DX2, No performance reduction built in when using Teleconverters (this is unlike any previous model)


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Dec 04, 2016 21:52 |  #22

Not answering any specific question about f/11 or 5D4 vs. 1Dx etc, but thought this quote from the 5D4 thread would be helpful in this discussion. It is the moment I discovered what Canon has been up to with this latest AF system that is in the 1Dx2 and 5D4;

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18140093 (external link)
MODERN CANON AF: Holy Mackeral!

Just tested the 5D4 with 500mm MKII with both Extender 2X MkIII, and MkII

OMG OMG OMG!!!!

This camera has managed a SIGNIFICANT leap ahead of any previous EOS AF system I have used! Now I understand what they've been talking about in the 1DX2 thread.

With either one of the 2X extenders, didn't seem to matter which, the AF speed, accuracy, jumping from near to far, was like a bare lens on most cameras!

2XIII allowed me to select a huge number of AF points (all?)
2X II allowed selection of any of the 9 center AF points (7 across center, 3 up and down center)
With that limitation vs. the MkIII, I was otherwise unable to see any difference in speed or hit rate.


Previously I had pretty much poopooed the claims that the 2XIII was big improvement for AF vs. the 2X MkII. Maybe I had the wrong camera, or maybe those making the claim had not tried the 2X II on their newer bodies?

What I will say is this, with a fully modern high end body like the 5D4, both the 2X III and 2X II paired with the EF 500mm f/4L IS MKII are performing like nothing I have ever before seen. Super fast AF, jumping from distant to near targets almost like a bare lens!

I immediately had to retry the combo with 7D2 and 1D4, which I have used the same lens/TCon combo on before (as well as 5D3 now sold) . none of which are coming in even CLOSE to being as superbly fast and accurate. The 7D2 is out there in the exact same (superb crisp) light, and it's hunting and not moving from near to far quickly at all.

It appears that the "built in brake" that the Canon 2X converters have always applied to previous bodies, does not engage on the 5D4 at all. It appears to try to AF at full speed, like a bare lens, and it also appears to be successful!

Sorry folks, if your shooting anything other than a 5D4 (or I assume 1Dx2) right now, you are dealing with a very different AF system.

IMHO, this is the biggest jump in actual AF performance since the 1DMkII. None of the other systems in between have displayed such an obvious side by side improvement.

The 7D2 improvements in use compared to 1D4/1D3/1D2 is NOT NEARLY as notable as compared to the 5D4 vs. 7D2!

As of today, I will have to change my stock answer to the age old "should I get a 2X T-Con?" question. Now the answer will have to begin with "shooting a 5D4? Then yes, if not,. well..."

Also, see this thread and post results;
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1467725


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Dec 05, 2016 03:23 |  #23

graham121 wrote in post #18202749 (external link)
I am more curious in how many AF points are active on the 5D4 at F8 with stacked TC's, namely EF III 1.4x and 2x ( connected via an EF12 exrendion tube ) on a 300 2.8 IS II.

If I recall correctly, trying those two TCs (stacked with an extension tube), on a 5D3 and a 70-200II (also f/2.8) did give me all AF points. I think that's because the camera didn't "see" the second TC.

I can't remember which way round I had the TCs, but at worse, f/2.8 with a 2x TC is going to show up as an f/5.6 lens to the camera. As such, I'm going to assume that in your scenario above you'd get all the AF points. The difference should be that, as it's effectively running an f/8 lens on the 5D3 it was struggling, but the 5D4 should be fine.

I don't have the 1.4x TC with me at the moment; otherwise I'd test the same TC and lens combo on my 5D4.


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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Dec 05, 2016 09:48 |  #24

graham121 wrote in post #18202749 (external link)
I am more curious in how many AF points are active on the 5D4 at F8 with stacked TC's, namely EF III 1.4x and 2x ( connected via an EF12 extension tube ) on a 300 2.8 IS II.


I have everything needed to test this, EXCEPT a 300mm f/2.8! ;)


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Post edited over 4 years ago by graham121.
     
Dec 06, 2016 01:52 |  #25

sploo wrote in post #18203754 (external link)
If I recall correctly, trying those two TCs (stacked with an extension tube), on a 5D3 and a 70-200II (also f/2.8) did give me all AF points. I think that's because the camera didn't "see" the second TC.

I can't remember which way round I had the TCs, but at worse, f/2.8 with a 2x TC is going to show up as an f/5.6 lens to the camera. As such, I'm going to assume that in your scenario above you'd get all the AF points. The difference should be that, as it's effectively running an f/8 lens on the 5D3 it was struggling, but the 5D4 should be fine.

I don't have the 1.4x TC with me at the moment; otherwise I'd test the same TC and lens combo on my 5D4.


CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18203973 (external link)
I have everything needed to test this, EXCEPT a 300mm f/2.8! ;)

LOL, Well the EF12 is on the Christmas list so I may well the guinea pig in a few weeks time ߙ


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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Dec 15, 2016 12:20 |  #26

digital paradise wrote in post #18202066 (external link)
I'm in the middle of trying to decide between those 2 bodies so I will follow this thread. I have been a 2 body owner for many years and wanted to own one body. I have a 7D2 and sold my 5D3 a few months ago. The intent was to get another FF and sell my 7D2.

It is not as easy as I thought it would be. I lose reach with a FF for my birding and I don't think I will see any longer primes like a 500mm in the near future. The 5D4 is 30 megapixels and when you do the math the crop to match the 7D2 is 17 I believe. So for an all around camera 50 would be better. Nice detail for landscapes, etc. Although not really meant for it I have seen BIF shots with the 5DSR and they do look good. You lose FPS but I don't need that many. Then there are the storage issues.

So if I get the 5DSR the 7D2 goes. If get the 5D4 I'll be a two body owner again which is not the worst thing for me. I can't decide so it is good thing that I'm not in a hurry.

Doesn't the 5DSR have a 1.3 and 1.6x crop mode built into the software? That would solve your zoom problem. Not sure how the crop modes would affect IQ though. Does the 5D4 have this feature?


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Dec 15, 2016 12:38 |  #27

5D4 does not have a "crop mode"

Of course with all of the above, the crop mode is really no different from taking a full size image and cropping later, from an IQ stand point.


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Dec 15, 2016 13:20 |  #28

And is not true crop mode based on what I read. It just makes a a smaller frame but you technically don't have any pixel advantage. I settled for the 5D4.


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