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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 30 Jul 2016 (Saturday) 06:10
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Wedding client asked to have all raw images -advice?

 
NBEast
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Dec 20, 2016 17:45 |  #31

Like you I've never done more than 6 or 8 weddings in a year, back when I did it at all.

I did a one-off for someone where I just took the shots. They didn't even want my edits since they were a photographer. I gave them a thumbdrive after a quick once-over to remove the really terrible shots (30 minutes).

I got $800 + free hotel room in a nice mountain resort for a night's work. I drove home after breakfast. It was just side-work for me so was pretty cool - no extra work! Kind of like being a 2nd shooter. Even the up-front meeting amounted to a single phone call where I agreed to the terms and a couple of EMAILs for contract signing, address details, etc.

They were really happy with the results - I even got a nice thank-you 4 or 5 month later; probably about time the hubby finally got around to the edits LOL.

As it happened, I still edited my top 20 or so photos and sent them a little slideshow that they loved. Hey, I was bored.


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Dec 20, 2016 17:49 |  #32

I agree with Peter's view, I asked for a couple of RAW files from my own wedding as I wanted to get them printed quite large. Having the raw file gives much more flexibility and I'm happy to spend 3-4 hours perfecting those special photographs that were previously merely batch-edited in LR with some slight tweaks in PS.

I do not understand the "charge more" mentality, it costs literally nothing to allow your client the freedom they desire, and the time saved can be then utilised getting ahead on other paid work.


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LucasCK
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Dec 20, 2016 18:16 |  #33

It's quite interesting how hotly debated this topic is. Years ago, it was common for wedding photographers to not even release the digital files at all, instead they give clients prints at an absurd price. In fact, I believe some wedding photographers today still have this business model which I think is slowly being phased out.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 21, 2016 00:40 |  #34

LucasCK wrote in post #18219054 (external link)
Yes I realise he knows what he is doing, but to call our profession "run of the mill data collectors" I believe downgrades our skills and talents. I was merely making a point that we are not just random people with decent cameras, but dedicated and experienced professionals and lets face it, wedding photography is a high pressure job that is both physically and mentally draining.

Like it or not a very large percentage of those working in the domestic genres are just run of the mill data collectors. What is more there is a very good argument that a large majority within the wedding industry are nothing but random people with decent cameras.

You may not like that fact but it is the reality of the industry. I'm a realist. Your "we" is the minority.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 21, 2016 00:48 |  #35

LucasCK wrote in post #18219030 (external link)
If you think of yourself and your work as "run of the mill data collection" then I feel sorry for your client's. Wedding photography requires much more than capturing data, editing data and deliver the data as you put it. How about knowing how lighting works, or posing, being able to use your camera without thinking, working with people etc. Wedding photography is a high pressure job that requires years of experience and thousands of dollars worth of equipment in order to do correctly.

I know what my work is and what it isn't. I also know what my clients think about my work.

Wedding photography varies from shutter button pressers to high end artists. The later being the minority. However a large number of those shutter button pressers think they are in the artist category when they are nowhere near.

Wedding photography doesn't require years of experience nor does it require thousands of dollars of equipment. It at it's most basic level requires a person with a camera, and that is what a very large number of players offer as a service. You're mistaking your own personal view as to what you think the requirements of being a wedding photographer are with what they actually are.

Aside from anything else... some people's raws are pretty darn close to the finished article.


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umphotography
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Dec 21, 2016 08:52 |  #36

LucasCK wrote in post #18219112 (external link)
It's quite interesting how hotly debated this topic is. Years ago, it was common for wedding photographers to not even release the digital files at all, instead they give clients prints at an absurd price. In fact, I believe some wedding photographers today still have this business model which I think is slowly being phased out.


Wow

I completely disagree with that statement

I charge more for prints and digital files that I ever did 5 yrs ago. And I am far from being phased out. In fact, we just opened a studio and expanded and Raised prices:-)

Wedding photography is about providing a over the top service and a great product. I love that all these hacks think they can be wedding photographers. The more families that get back screwed up wedding images, and there are a ton that do, the more value people place in pros that know what they are doing. Im over 400. Im betting guys like Jim coleman, Tim, Nickson, Pete from memories, and others that are up there on the weddings photographed counts have NO PROBLEMS selling $75.00 8x10's and $1000.00 wedding albums.

Absurd price...please..You dont know what your talking about plain and simple..You Cant stay in business for 12 yrs and buy top of the line equipment and lighting by selling 8x10's for $15.00. All Successful wedding and portrait photographers MUST have and use a similar business model or they go out of business.....Obviously shooting 20-30 weddings for 10 yrs....people will pay for quality professionals who can deliver as promised. We wont walk in the door for less that $3000.00. I am the highest sole proprietor business on wedding wire with over 70 5 star reviews from out clients. We work very hard to deliver a quality service for our clients and they pay accordingly. We have to make enough to pay ourselves and keep the business running......Absurd prices got us there and we are far from being phased out. In Fact we are probably too Low for what we do. But Im ok with where we are at.


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LucasCK
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Dec 21, 2016 17:32 as a reply to  @ umphotography's post |  #37

I think you need to take a step back and be a little more polite about how you are saying things. I was merely making a point from my own experience in my own city of business.

All I know that in Sydney, if you were to try and charge $1000 for a wedding album or $75 for a simple print then you will find it hard to get clients. It is extremely rare in Sydney for wedding photographers not to provide digital files. People are not silly. They do their research and know the value of having the digital copoes and know they can make their own 8x10 print for the price of a cup of coffee. They can even make their own albums using high res files for a fraction of the price.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 22, 2016 05:59 |  #38

LucasCK wrote in post #18220050 (external link)
I think you need to take a step back and be a little more polite about how you are saying things.

Nothing impolite has been said. We just recognise the industry for what it actually is.


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urbanfreestyle
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Dec 22, 2016 06:44 |  #39

say you don't shoot raw and give them a bunch of crap flat jpegs. lol!


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mikeinctown
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Dec 22, 2016 10:57 |  #40

umphotography wrote in post #18219644 (external link)
Wow

Absurd price...please..You dont know what your talking about plain and simple..You Cant stay in business for 12 yrs and buy top of the line equipment and lighting by selling 8x10's for $15.00. All Successful wedding and portrait photographers MUST have and use a similar business model or they go out of business.....Obviously shooting 20-30 weddings for 10 yrs....people will pay for quality professionals who can deliver as promised. We wont walk in the door for less that $3000.00. I am the highest sole proprietor business on wedding wire with over 70 5 star reviews from out clients. We work very hard to deliver a quality service for our clients and they pay accordingly. We have to make enough to pay ourselves and keep the business running......Absurd prices got us there and we are far from being phased out. In Fact we are probably too Low for what we do. But Im ok with where we are at.

Before telling people they don't know what they are talking about, it might be good to understand where they are coming from. A quick search shows that Zillow says the median home value in your area is well over $400K. In my area it is less than half that and in some cases a third or less. So while the business plan in your area may work well, it is also likely because of the disposable income in your area. Your model may very well fail miserably in Morgantown, WV.

Seems most people just don't realize that you can still cull non keepers before handing over the files, and more importantly, this just shows the need to a CONTRACT that clearly outlines usage and ownership rights. If you are afraid to hand over certain fies, it may just be because your business documents need improvement. (or you don't have any)




  
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umphotography
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Dec 22, 2016 11:30 |  #41

mikeinctown wrote in post #18220667 (external link)
Before telling people they don't know what they are talking about, it might be good to understand where they are coming from. A quick search shows that Zillow says the median home value in your area is well over $400K. In my area it is less than half that and in some cases a third or less. So while the business plan in your area may work well, it is also likely because of the disposable income in your area. Your model may very well fail miserably in Morgantown, WV.

Seems most people just don't realize that you can still cull non keepers before handing over the files, and more importantly, this just shows the need to a CONTRACT that clearly outlines usage and ownership rights. If you are afraid to hand over certain fies, it may just be because your business documents need improvement. (or you don't have any)


Gonna disagree with you again. I Know my figures and I know what the national averages are as well

82% of all wedding clients spend BT 1200.00-2850.00 for wedding photography services.
less than 10% spend above $2850.00
Less than 10$ spend less than $1250.00

This is nationwide and true in every state on county. All you have to do is look in the wedding industry reports and type in zip codes to see whats spent and what the averages are

so it really depends on where you place value in the market that you want to fish in. I want to play in the upper end of the 2500.00-3000.00 market for the majority of my work. If I get into the higher markets, which we frequently do, even better.

Just because I live in an area where the median is 4ooK does not mean squat. A quick search will also tell you we live in a heavily military area. They make 30-40K median income a year. I had 4 military wedding this year all at the 3K figure. I lived in Minnesota farm country for 6.5 yrs..always over 3K for weddings

If you want to consistently play in the 1200.00 market than yes prices may seem absurd....most in this market last a year or two. They either get better and command more money or they go out of business. It takes decent $$$ to make a business run and to pay yourself enough to make it worth your time to do it.......This is just a simple fact..plain and simple and not pointing fingers at anyone............The comment said was that the business model is slowly being phased out due to absurd prices........Thats a statement from someone who does not know how the photography business model works for long term success.......Business need $$$ to run, people that work the job need $$$ to pay bills, cards, mortgage, ect ect ect.

There is a night and day difference BT a Hobbyist who takes pictures and make a few buck and buys equipment to keep the hobby going and a professional who runs a business and takes pictures.

The reason so many fail is because they are afraid to charge enough $$$ to realistically survive...which the person who made the statement said is absurd...and he wont make it or survive until the quality of the product and the price for the service attract a price point that covers all the expense


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Dec 22, 2016 13:04 |  #42

urbanfreestyle wrote in post #18220508 (external link)
say you don't shoot raw and give them a bunch of crap flat jpegs. lol!

You just made a thread about people not respecting your work. Now I know why

There's a huge gap between the mentality of hobbyists vs. the people that actually do this for a living. It's just hilarious when these hobbyist experts put on their pro photographer hat and pretend they know how the industry works after reading a few petapixel and fstopper articles.

Sorry, the real world doesn't work like that.


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Dec 22, 2016 17:53 as a reply to  @ panicatnabisco's post |  #43

If you thought that it was a serious reply you need an injection of humour.

Perhaps take it for what it was- a joke and get off your high horse


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Dec 22, 2016 18:18 |  #44

umphotography wrote in post #18219644 (external link)
Wow

I completely disagree with that statement

The more families that get back screwed up wedding images, and there are a ton that do, the more value people place in pros that know what they are doing.

No truer words ! None ! I totally agree .. won't even get into the "absurd" prices .. you did just fine .. ;-)a


  
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Post edited over 2 years ago by NBEast. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 26, 2016 23:30 |  #45

umphotography wrote in post #18219644 (external link)
Wow

I completely disagree with that statement

I charge more for prints and digital files that I ever did 5 yrs ago. And I am far from being phased out. In fact, we just opened a studio and expanded and Raised prices:-)

Wedding photography is about providing a over the top service and a great product. I love that all these hacks think they can be wedding photographers. The more families that get back screwed up wedding images, and there are a ton that do, the more value people place in pros that know what they are doing. Im over 400. Im betting guys like Jim coleman, Tim, Nickson, Pete from memories, and others that are up there on the weddings photographed counts have NO PROBLEMS selling $75.00 8x10's and $1000.00 wedding albums.

Absurd price...please..You dont know what your talking about plain and simple..You Cant stay in business for 12 yrs and buy top of the line equipment and lighting by selling 8x10's for $15.00. All Successful wedding and portrait photographers MUST have and use a similar business model or they go out of business.....Obviously shooting 20-30 weddings for 10 yrs....people will pay for quality professionals who can deliver as promised. We wont walk in the door for less that $3000.00. I am the highest sole proprietor business on wedding wire with over 70 5 star reviews from out clients. We work very hard to deliver a quality service for our clients and they pay accordingly. We have to make enough to pay ourselves and keep the business running......Absurd prices got us there and we are far from being phased out. In Fact we are probably too Low for what we do. But Im ok with where we are at.

I'm no authority but let me understand this correctly. You charge $3K minimum (read, $3500 - $7000 range) and you don't include prints or albums?

Don't you usually just sell that in the "package price" so they don't feel nickle-n-dimed?

Respectfully; every photog site I've ever visited offers "wedding packages" - most of which include a set number of enlargements. Album prices are sometimes separate, but aren't you better off selling this stuff up front when the wallet's most likely to open the widest?


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