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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 22 Nov 2016 (Tuesday) 18:35
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ON1 RAW Reviews, Perceptions and Experiences

 
DagoImaging
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Dec 29, 2016 08:09 |  #121


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I'm not a subscriber yet I find 49 videos on using on1 Raw 2017. There are more videos under the three other tabs Browse, Develop, Effects.

The software company I work for has a similar practice. You get basic instructional aides for our software when you purchase it. If you want in depth full tutorials you pay extra.

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Dec 29, 2016 08:30 |  #122

DagoImaging wrote in post #18226357 (external link)
I'm not a subscriber yet I find 49 videos on using on1 Raw 2017. There are more videos under the three other tabs Browse, Develop, Effects.

Here is a link to a search for a video about using ON1 Photo Raw with network drives:

https://www.on1.com/?s​=network (external link)

As you can see, only one video is available, and you need to be an ON1 Plus member to view it. If you try to view the video, you get the message "Join ON1 Plus to access this premium content." Perhaps I overlooked it, but this is not a link to an expanded version video of the function, but the only video. And extra must be paid to view it.

Our philosophies differ. I believe if I purchase software, and the software has a feature or function, I should be able to get information about it without being extorted to pay extra.


DagoImaging wrote in post #18226357 (external link)
The software company I work for has a similar practice.

So what? You have used this excuse previously in this thread, and it does not mean it is right. When a person purchases software they should be provided with information about how to use it and the functions available in it.

The fact the software company you work for does the same thing only means one thing to me: I won't be doing business with your software company.


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BigAl007
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Dec 29, 2016 09:19 |  #123

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18226373 (external link)
Here is a link to a search for a video about using ON1 Photo Raw with network drives:

https://www.on1.com/?s​=network (external link)

As you can see, only one video is available, and you need to be an ON1 Plus member to view it. If you try to view the video, you get the message "Join ON1 Plus to access this premium content." Perhaps I overlooked it, but this is not a link to an expanded version video of the function, but the only video. And extra must be paid to view it.

Our philosophies differ. I believe if I purchase software, and the software has a feature or function, I should be able to get information about it without being extorted to pay extra.

So what? You have used this excuse previously in this thread, and it does not mean it is right. When a person purchases software they should be provided with information about how to use it and the functions available in it.

The fact the software company you work for does the same thing only means one thing to me: I won't be doing business with your software company.


You may or may not agree with Adobe moving to a rental based licensing scheme for most of it's pro level products, both Photoshop Elements, and the equivalent Premier Elements for video are the non pro level products, and they are still very much a single purchase licence. Either way Adobe make all of their own training materials freely available to everyone, so you have the opportunity to use them both before and during the free trial periods, as well as once you have made a commitment. One of the issues with most image editing programs, be they for RAW or pixel editing tend to have differing names and variations in the way that they work, so changing from one publisher to another tends to be a much bigger jump for most people than say a program version upgrade, so many users will be needing help with any transition from some source or another. For a new entrant to the market this is going to make initial sales difficult when competing with such an entrenched market leader as Adobe. Because there are few users there is no to very little third party help available, free or paid for, so why would a publisher think that it was a good idea to keep most of the training materials behind a paywall? Especially when the largest competitor, with over twenty years in the field, with a hugely supported "Industry Standard" product is already giving all of theirs away for free? If it were me trying to break into that market I would be doing everything possible to put both the product, and as much information about it in front of as many potential users as possible.

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Wilt
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (4 edits in all)
     
Dec 29, 2016 10:31 |  #124

dan.k78 wrote in post #18192682 (external link)
- As this is the pre-release, some functionality isn't there yet. Things like cropping, histogram, and a few other things. Hopefully they'll release these items soon.


Am I interpreting your above statement correctly, that cropping and histogram are among the things NOT in the first release?! A RAW convertor with no histogram?! :eek::eek:

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18192688 (external link)
apparently they have mentioned quite a list of features that will eventually be implemented. That's fine with me. If they're being square about it and stated ahead of time it is incomplete, then that's honest.

If there is no histogram, that honestly serves no purpose except to show that they were in such a rush to release 'on time', they released what I consider to be a sorely impeded implementation. What good is honesty when you cannot use an important tool for evaluation of your image? Is histogram in the 'released' version of Dec 19?

TIP, to bring this thread on topic: Do NOT purchase this software yet, it is really in Beta test and they deceive by calling it v1 rather than v0.1


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Dec 29, 2016 10:34 |  #125

PNC,
ON1 uploads their videos to YouTube. Since I was a member, most of what I've seen is available on YouTube. So far most of the behind closed doors stuff is very specific to paying for that membership. They, Matt, Hudson, and others will be like personal coaches, respond directly to your questions. They have photo critiques, much like Kelby One does. It is a "club" sort of environment. However most all videos that are instructional, can be found on YouTube. https://www.youtube.co​m/user/onOneSoftwareU/​featured (external link)


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Wilt
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Dec 29, 2016 10:40 |  #126

nqjudo wrote in post #18193079 (external link)
The Adobe LR public betas were free and advertised as betas. On1 sold and promised a completely functional program and fell quite short of their goal. I don't think a comparison of the two rollouts is fair. The first official release of LR performed as promised.

...and was preceded in the fundamental RAW conversion functions via Beta test and two fully released versions of RAWShooter, which Adobe purchased to serve as the core of LR.


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frozenframe
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Dec 29, 2016 10:50 |  #127

Wilt wrote in post #18226533 (external link)
Am I interpreting your above statement correctly, that cropping and histogram are among the things NOT in the first release?! A RAW convertor with no histogram?! :eek::eek:

If there is no histogram, then honest serves no purpose except to show that they were in such a rush to release 'on time', they released what I consider to be a sorely impeded implementation. What good is honesty when you cannot use an important tool for evaluation of your image?

TIP, to bring this thread on topic: Do NOT purchase this software yet, it is really in Beta test and they deceive by calling it v1 rather than v0.1

The "Pre-Release" is the one that did not have the crop or histogram. It was very much a beta. I think that's why they were calling it Pre. However why would they even think that people should purchase the program when it was not complete. Yes, you are eligible for all the updates until the latter part of next year (2017), when the next "version" is released.

The second release is fully functional, including the crop and histogram. According to my copy, it is version #11.0.0.3402 (that's in tiny print) at the bottom left of the About window. Other than that, it just states On1 Photo Raw Version 2017.


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Dec 29, 2016 10:53 |  #128

DagoImaging wrote in post #18193599 (external link)
So LR and ACR are essentially the same thing but LR has more functions than just a RAW converter. LR allows you to catalog your images, create web pages, create print pages, create geo tagging, create a photo book and create a slideshow. It also allows you to apply presets to your images. Essentially it's a standalone editor as long as you don't need to do masking or layers to your images..

In truth, both LR and ACR are founded upon the RawShooter software authored in 2005 by Uwe Steinmueller, which after two full releases, the rights to the code were purchased by Adobe. Adobe embedded RawShooter's RAW functionality into LR1. LR had a full integration of RAW conversion + DAM + Printing/Presentation management. In comparison, Adobe appended RAW functionality into PhotoShop via the ACR add-on module appendage (as well as the Bridge add-on appendage). Subsequent market obfuscation about Photoshop via the Creative Suite made PS with ACR and Bridge appear to be an integration.


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DagoImaging
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Dec 29, 2016 10:54 |  #129

Well our software sells for >$30k per seat so I don't think you're in the market for our software.

Here are 32 user tutorials for Photo Raw: https://www.youtube.co​m …VWiXXggODFzHB2q​JAv9_C6GYg (external link)

Your view is yours and you're welcome to it. I have no plans on switching at this point to onOne Raw due to it's not show ready IMO but I have no issue w/ their business practice.


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Dec 29, 2016 10:58 |  #130

frozenframe wrote in post #18226554 (external link)
The "Pre-Release" is the one that did not have the crop or histogram. It was very much a beta. I think that's why they were calling it Pre. However why would they even think that people should purchase the program when it was not complete.

I have received quite a few emails from their company, inviting me to PURCHASE their RAW convertor, sight unseen and with no list of functionality assumed to be present in the first release. IOW, buy blind!

agedbriar wrote in post #18201252 (external link)
The ON1 Photo RAW sale that was advertised to end Nov. 28, is still on.

Not quite the kind of marketing that I'm attracted to... :rolleyes:

In fact, the first of their emails arrived without even a functioning web site.

I distinctly recall one of the early emails was an open invitation to spend $99 and get their software! Had they invited me to join a beta test program, in view of my history with RawShooter's beta and two releases, and the subsequent releases of Lightroom, I would have considered the invitation. But the 'spend $99 on vaporware' invitation was not appreciated by me, having 40 years of history in technical software and hardware systems integrations.


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frozenframe
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Dec 29, 2016 11:25 |  #131

First of all this is what got my BVDs all in bunch yesterday.


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You see that area represented by my red outlined box? That is what they (On1) was telling me and everyone, is where the Cancel button is. That's what we needed to use to cancel a membership. As you can see, no such button existed. It wasn't until I went on my ranting, tirade, advising them that I was preparing (and I was) complaints to the BBB and the AG of the State of Kansas, that I finally got a reply from them. This was in the form of a personal phone call. The man was very, very, very apologetic, and told me it was being taken care of, and the web is to be corrected. Now why did it take all of that before they would acknowledge the problem? I have a very bad developed instinct (from being a cop for 3/4 of my adult life), actions like that speak loudly, towards some sort of guilt. That to me was the "trapping members", so they can help fund their future endeavors. May not have been, but it shouldn't take the "threat" (and I hate using that term, because I don't threaten, I state fact and promise, advise my course of actions), for them to finally attempt to correct it?

When that occurred yesterday I did research, and learned that On1 was formed clear back in 2005 by the former CEO of Extensis Group. So On1 is not a brand new company. It's been around for 11 yrs now. I would think that they would know better to rush, or release a product before it's completed. It makes a person question what sort of business model are they following? Perhaps the crowd funding?

Finally, so far I'm finding that On1 RAW is much slower than On1 Photo 10, when it's suppose to be faster. The indexing function does not seem to increase performance, rather hinders it, slowing it down. The indexing is suppose to work unnoticed in the background. Well I notice it by how it slows down the program while I'm working. Since I was a "club member" for the last year, and was privilege to a free upgrade to ON1 Raw, I'll toy with it from time to time. But so far I'd rather use version 10, faster and does what I need, since I start work in LR.

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Dec 29, 2016 11:31 |  #132

DagoImaging wrote in post #18226560 (external link)
Well our software sells for >$30k per seat so I don't think you're in the market for our software.

My finances are none of your business not to mention you have no knowledge of what I am or am not capable of buying. But you are correct, I am not in the market for your software.

Were it $10 a seat I would not purchase it if the company was forthright and admitted up front that after buying (and owning) the software I had to pay additional fees (to join their exclusive club) to receive instruction on how to use it and the functions it was capable of.

DagoImaging wrote in post #18226560 (external link)
Here are 32 user tutorials for Photo Raw: https://www.youtube.co​m …VWiXXggODFzHB2q​JAv9_C6GYg (external link)

That's fine. I'm still hunting for the video about using the application with network drives - a video that I do not need to pay money to join an exclusive club to see. Perhaps I overlooked it. Please post a link.

DagoImaging wrote in post #18226560 (external link)
I have no plans on switching at this point to onOne Raw due to it's not show ready

We agree here. I succumbed to email marketing. Had they clearly revealed (up front) the pre-release was in shambles, and that the retail release necessitated me purchasing admittance to their exclusive club to receive instruction on using it, I would never have purchased it in the first place.

I currently use ON1 Photo Raw, but very little. I crank it up out of principle because I paid for it. But the truth is, 95% of the time I still rely on ACR with the 2012 process engine that, IMHO, does a superior job.


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Dec 29, 2016 11:43 |  #133

frozenframe wrote in post #18226593 (external link)
It makes a person question what sort of business model are they following?

What I said above. I am not trying to boot ON1 around. I am just relying on assumptions made from what I have experienced. And that assumption is that I am wondering if they will be leaning on and putting marketing priority on revenues from the ON1 Plus program because they, as well as the ON1 Photo Raw users, are discovering their miraculous software is not turning out to be as miraculous as they 1) said it would be, and 2) had hoped for.

frozenframe wrote in post #18226593 (external link)
Finally, so far I'm finding that On1 RAW is much slower than On1 Photo 10, when it's suppose to be faster. The indexing function does not seem to increase performance, rather hinders it, slowing it down.

Hangs my system up. When indexing a directory with lots of RAWs my system hangs to the point it is unusable. System dependent? Couldn't care less. I know that ACR does not do it and I can continue to use the PC while ACR is creating thumbnails. If Adobe can do it, theoretically ON1 can too.


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Dec 29, 2016 11:53 as a reply to  @ Picture North Carolina's post |  #134

Yes they do have that Network tutorial, instruction hidden in the Plus members category. Those videos are setup like KelbyOne's, Creative Live, where they are courses. However I don't think that sort of thing should be considered a course, but there's others that are that way too. Most of those are the ones where I've expressed my opinion of not impressed. I went through several of them by MattK, and in one course he would repeat himself video to video. This is the same business model as Kelby, Creative Live. Get people to pay for the "tutorials" instructions, by calling it a course, and setting it up as such. You elect a course, which may have numerous video clips. Then once you complete watching a segment, you press a button (completed), it then loads the next one.

This is not surprising to me, since Matt K left Kelby One going directly to On1. He was in a Management position with On1, however after about a year left them to. Unless he's went back, I think he's acting more of freelancer for them. But I think Matt would have certainly enlightened them, brought with him how Kelby is doing business. Matt's educational background is a programmer. I don't think he would have had any hard feelings about providing another company with some insight to compete against Kelby, after what Kelby done to his staff, letting go all the best talent he had. Yes I understand it was a business decision, but from what I read, it was a sudden hey don't need all of you now, because I really can't afford you, type of call. I mean they all gave up their careers for him, devoting all their talent, Kelby having exclusive use of it, then get pushed out. They were the ones that was making Kelby what it was, not Scott. Anyway that's my take on why On1 is doing what it is.


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