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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 19 Dec 2016 (Monday) 04:18
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Getting bored of photography

 
Hogloff
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Jan 01, 2017 14:11 |  #241
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airfrogusmc wrote in post #18229837 (external link)
Someone is really hung up on that word ART. You need to lighten up on that. Love the way you capitalized YOU. Really, that makes you automatically right LoL. I don't think anyone is saying that anyone shouldn't follow their vision but that vision may or may not be art. Just because someone says they are making art doesn't mean that the end result is art. It may be but it may well not be. And just because someone is a great craftsmen doesn't in itself make them an artist.

So how does something become art? Who sprinkles it with magic dust and from then on its art? Who sets this standard of what is art and what is not.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 01, 2017 14:12 |  #242
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Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18229869 (external link)
No, I'm not trying to define what the photographer is trying to accomplish. The photographer may very well end up creating art. Or not. I have no idea. But as I have tried to explain, that is not the point at all!

And yes, I do have an opinion about what constitutes art. So do you. Except your definition of art is so broad that it seems to include everything and thus the word, in my opinion, becomes meaningless. My definition of art is much narrower.

Ok, define art.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 01, 2017 14:21 |  #243

Hogloff wrote in post #18229947 (external link)
So how does something become art? Who sprinkles it with magic dust and from then on its art? Who sets this standard of what is art and what is not.

There's no magic dust and I can show you art just like I can show you great photographs but to me a great photograph is one that honestly captures what the photographer feels about the world in it's entirety. It is a reflection of him and how he sees the world.




  
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DreDaze
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Jan 01, 2017 14:34 |  #244

it may be all the celebrating last night...but this thread is giving me a headache...it's so off course it's ridiculous...


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Hogloff
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Jan 01, 2017 14:44 |  #245
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airfrogusmc wrote in post #18229954 (external link)
There's no magic dust and I can show you art just like I can show you great photographs but to me a great photograph is one that honestly captures what the photographer feels about the world in it's entirety. It is a reflection of him and how he sees the world.

Right, and isn't that what most photographers do...capture by way of camera how they see the world. like a painter paints their interpretations of how they see the world. Aren't the photographer and painter creating art...showing the rest of the world how they interpret their view of the world?

I still would love to understand what your view is art and how does art materialize. Still seems like some magic dust is involved here.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 01, 2017 15:05 |  #246

Hogloff wrote in post #18229970 (external link)
Right, and isn't that what most photographers do...capture by way of camera how they see the world. like a painter paints their interpretations of how they see the world. Aren't the photographer and painter creating art...showing the rest of the world how they interpret their view of the world?

I still would love to understand what your view is art and how does art materialize. Still seems like some magic dust is involved here.

Some are creating art and some aren't and here goes the circle again. Many aren't being honest. Many are just parroting what they have already seen. Maybe you should find out for yourself. But that would take some work. It's all out there though and never been easier to learn. It's gonna take some time. I know what it is and I said what I think a great photograph is. It's not my fault you don't get it.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 01, 2017 15:42 |  #247
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airfrogusmc wrote in post #18229977 (external link)
Some are creating art and some aren't and here goes the circle again. Many aren't being honest. Many are just parroting what they have already seen. Maybe you should find out for yourself. But that would take some work. It's all out there though and never been easier to learn. It's gonna take some time. I know what it is and I said what I think a great photograph is. It's not my fault you don't get it.

I got it. Seems to me you just parrot others as seen from all your quotes. I don't need to go learn what art is...I appreciate my vision of art and that does not need to be taught. See, that's the problem here, trying to pigeon hole art by some definition that must be learned during 4 years at a fine arts school.

See, I don't need to be taught what type of art I enjoy very much like I don't need to be taught how I like my steak cooked or I don't need to be taught the music I like to listen to.

I agree that many photographers are not creating art, but this tangent started out when it was stated that photographers don't shoot with their art ( their vision of the world ) in mind which I totally disagree with.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Post edited over 1 year ago by airfrogusmc. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 01, 2017 15:52 as a reply to  @ Hogloff's post |  #248

I get it to. Your reading comprehension is suspect at best I never said that photographers shot without vision of the world. I am saying that many do shoot with vision and make photographs that some are and some are not art. Im trying to demonstrate that you and many like your are boxed in by the word ART. Something can still be good and not be art. And thats ok. Again just create and don't worry about it.
And the arguments for ignorance do get old. I enjoy all kinds of visual things and they may or may not be art. But what should worry you is why you are so pre-occupied by a word that you clearly do not understand and have no desire to learn. The stupid circle is never ending huh? I just ended it on my end.




  
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EOS-Mike
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Jan 01, 2017 17:18 |  #249

A few pages back when I used the term "photojournalist" I wasn't meaning someone specifically hired as a photojournalist for a newspaper, etc. I simply meant it in a broader sense of photographers who go out to capture dramatic or emotional human events that aren't necessarily planned.

I agree with the guy who took exception to me when he began listing famous photographers, and he had a very valid point. Yes, Photographers can be quite famous, but what's interesting is that most of the time famous photographers and famous photographs are separate.

Check this out (and, no, I'm not trying to degrade any particular photographers. I love Ansel Adams and marvel at his work. I'll stare at one of his photographs much longer than most news photos). But that said, check out some of these links. These are what are considered iconic photos, and most were completely spontaneous. And most are by non-famous photographers. Lange is in there. But think on some of these:

http://www.cnn.com …ld/gallery/icon​ic-images/ (external link)

http://all-that-is-interesting.com/influe​ntial-photographs (external link)

http://www.worldhistor​ycharts.com/most-famous-photographs/ (external link)

http://www.telegraph.c​o.uk …inions.html?fra​me=3428904 (external link)


One can argue the legitimacy of the sources or whatnot, but I'd venture to say that these photos are the equivalent of the great American novel, etc. that many seek when in the field.


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aezoss
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Jan 01, 2017 18:01 |  #250

chauncey wrote in post #18229627 (external link)
It would appear that I'm the only one here that prefers the artistic genre.
What sites might I peruse to satisfy my whims.

In the 90s our public library had a selection of Graphis Annuals containing contemporary award winning advertising, graphic design and photography. There are volumes dedicated to a single category (advertising, illustration, nudes, etc) but if I recall there are also compilation volumes.

I found them inspirational at the time.

Not sure if this is what you had in mind but they may be worth looking for at the library or used book store.

http://www.graphis.com (external link)
http://www.graphis.com …annual-2017/live-viewing/ (external link)

Lee




  
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Alveric
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Jan 01, 2017 19:22 |  #251

My oh my, after 17 pages this thread strongly reminds me of the cover of Mr Big's album Lean Into It. Wonder if said cover's photo is 'art'... -? :rolleyes:


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Jan 01, 2017 20:56 |  #252

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18229619 (external link)
But the one thing I do know is that art that is widely recognised as such did not come about because the artist set out to create art. No matter how "artistic" somebody is, that is not what drives him or her, the artistry if you like is a tool that can be used to create the work that a painter or a photographer envisions. It is not an end in itself.

As a lifelong 'artist' I will disagree. I wake up in the morning knowing I will be creating art during the day. That is my goal, that is my drive and that is what I get paid to do.

Even the casual photographer goes out with some form of intention to create something. Whether that goal is artistic is based on a large number of factors; quality, interpretation, implied value, emotive response, subjectivity, etc.

My customers comes to me in order to utilize my skills as an artist (knowledge, experience, vision, execution) to create a product they desire; commissioned art. That's how I work. Others will go out with the same, or similar, skills to create a product they feel will appeal to others; speculative art.

However, as I am creating that commissioned piece I'm not dancing around gleefully expressing, "look at me. I'm making art!" But, during the process, I am fully aware that I am creating art. Artistry, as you say, is not a tool but rather a drive that pushes me in my quest to pursue a particular outlet. In my case I express it visually through illustration, through photography and anything else that meets my fancy. For example, I am not a chef, but I love to cook and can hold my own in a kitchen creating dishes from the raw materials I gather from the supermarket. Others, as I mentioned in my earlier post, pull from that well called artistry and use it to see numbers in new and unusual ways (Einstein) or to visualize our universe as no one else can (Hawking) or, more humbly, to be able to listen to an engine and know exactly what's wrong with it (my mechanic).


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Jan 01, 2017 21:07 |  #253

P.S. My six year old grandson tries to emulate me in his own way with his markers and crayons. He draws all the time and when he is especially proud of a piece he proclaims that he is, "an artist, just like Poppy Duck." I dare you to tell me his drawings aren't art. Yes, they're crude. Yes, they will not hang in a gallery. But boy, they are priceless.

P.P.S. Yes, I know it's subjective but that's the point of this story.


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Jan 01, 2017 22:23 |  #254

sjones wrote in post #18229229 (external link)
Oh god, more “art” and “Eggleston” bashing. Folks, photography is a visual medium, and the best of it incorporates artistic elements, even if absolutely no pretense exists that the work is ‘art’ itself.

Yes, professed ‘art’ can frequently be pretentious, fraudulent, arrogant, an inveigling superficial product of cynical marketing, elitist, the emperor’s new clothes, and so on…we understand this. But this does not negate the overall historical and cultural value of art, in its broadest term, throughout the course of humanity.

OK, so it’s all subjective. Fine. Then ask yourself, how does one go about improving his or her own photos (should one want to of course)? What factors are you going to consider based on your own subjective demands?

And this is where a basic appreciation of art can benefit one, because art addresses aesthetic, and the aesthetic, depending on the type of photography pursued, can be a crucial component of such photography. Note how I said “can be.”

It’s easy to dismiss art, to be iconoclastic, but the reductionist vilification of art promotes its own set of problems, with boorishness and formulaic mediocrity marking just a couple of the drawbacks. And these days in particular, I have had it up to my arse in the deification of anti-intellectualism.

Aspiring for something more does not have to be an ostentatious or duplicitous endeavor.

On Eggleston specifically, easily one of my favorite photographers, and I actually don’t care much for the tricycle shot (I think it has something to do with my dislike of children). And if nothing else, his control of color is shared by extremely few photographers; I won’t even entertain a debate on that.

I’ve seen folks on this very site post similar shots to mock Eggleston, an exercise that only proved them foolishly lacking, really, embarrassing.

On the issue of needing text for appreciation. If any artistic medium benefits from external explanation, it’s photography. Photographs don’t tell a story; they only make suggestions through an extremely narrow narrative and a lot of assumed context.

Here’s a photo of an old man. Who cares, typical portrait shot from the 1930s. Wait, there’s some accompanying text; it’s a photograph of your great grandfather. Whole new perspective on the photo’s relevancy.

Yes, I agree in general that text should not be needed to ‘force’ one to visually like a particular photo; that comes down to more subjective aesthetic appreciation. But understanding why something might—-even if debatable—-be influential, whether one likes the photo(s)/photographer or not, can at least broaden one’s understanding of the medium in general; that is, should one be so curious, which they might not be, and that’s fair.


Happy New Year!

This is probably the most articulate, well-argued post I've ever seen on an internet forum. It inspired me to read the two articles linked in your signature—-both similarly articulate and entertaining (though not on a superficial level), and arguing for premises that are hard to refute with such persuasive, quality prose. Thank you.


— Please feel free to offer your thoughts on how I might improve my images —

  
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Jan 02, 2017 00:56 |  #255

My god, what have I started!?


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Getting bored of photography
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