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Thread started 26 May 2007 (Saturday) 06:22
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klinde
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Jan 02, 2017 09:20 as a reply to  @ post 18230373 |  #7456

Thank you.


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klinde
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Jan 02, 2017 11:31 |  #7457

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #18230348 (external link)
being a porsche driver, I find F-car front brake bias almost bizarre

I never really thought about that but wondering if the difference is due to the Porsche being rear engine and the Ferrari a mid-engine layout.


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Post edited over 2 years ago by Jethr0.
     
Jan 02, 2017 12:28 |  #7458

klinde wrote in post #18230724 (external link)
I never really thought about that but wondering if the difference is due to the Porsche being rear engine and the Ferrari a mid-engine layout.

The brake bias is adjusted by the driver. Fuel load, track conditions, track location, wet/dry etc all have a bearing

The car in the pic might be coming into a high speed corner in which case front bias is your friend.


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wallstreetoneil
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Post edited over 2 years ago by wallstreetoneil.
     
Jan 02, 2017 12:50 |  #7459

Jethr0 wrote in post #18230766 (external link)
The brake bias is adjusted by the driver. Fuel load, track conditions, track location, wet/dry etc all have a bearing

The car in the pic might be coming into a high speed corner in which case front bias is your friend.

That still seems way out of whack given the amount of rear wing being run - I would like to know the corner because that is a lot of braking coming into a high-speed corner. Again, I'm a gt3 driver, my home track is Mosport, so I know a thing or two about high-speed corners - given that Mosport is the fastest track in North America. It might be a lock-up diff tuning thing but that massively aggressive front bias cannot be optimal. Again, I'm a rear engine gt3 driver but that does not seem optimal.


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Jethr0
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Jan 02, 2017 13:04 |  #7460

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #18230800 (external link)
That still seems way out of whack given the amount of rear wing being run - I would like to know the corner because that is a lot of braking coming into a high-speed corner. Again, I'm a gt3 driver, my home track is Mosport, so I know a thing or two about high-speed corners - given that Mosport is the fastest track in North America. It might be a lock-up diff tuning thing but that massively aggressive front bias cannot be optimal. Again, I'm a rear engine gt3 driver but that does not seem optimal.

Agreed it looks out of whack. I love mosport. I had to obtain some testicular fortitude to carry speed properly there.

What series do you race @wallstreetoneil?


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PhotosGuy
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Jan 02, 2017 13:17 |  #7461

I suspect that there's a lot of black magic involved in braking. I once had to run with only front brakes & was amazed at how well it worked.

Jethr0 wrote in post #18230815 (external link)
Agreed it looks out of whack. I love mosport. I had to obtain some testicular fortitude to carry speed properly there.

; D Decades ago, I watched Mario dancing a Can-Am car through turn 9. It was an education all by itself.


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wallstreetoneil
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Post edited over 2 years ago by wallstreetoneil.
     
Jan 02, 2017 13:28 |  #7462

Jethr0 wrote in post #18230815 (external link)
Agreed it looks out of whack. I love mosport. I had to obtain some testicular fortitude to carry speed properly there.

What series do you race @wallstreetoneil?

I am a retired 6 & 7 cup person - now just do the street gt3 trackday thing in the Northeast (Mosport, Watkins, Tremblant, and VIR occasionally - have rented BMW spec E30 the last two times there) - and it was the E30 that educated me that not all cars drive like a rear engined gt3 - absolutely loved it but had to entirely relearn braking with the E30 vs a GT3 - a gt3 has so much rear brake bias and rear weight and rear grip under braking that you would be braking so far past where you had to be on throttle with the E30. My brake bias comment really comes from the fact that rear engine GT3s, while initially maybe different / difficult to learn, end up having unique advantages (yes there are issues) on the track under braking that rear bias and braking is a huge GT3 advantage.


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klinde
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Jan 02, 2017 21:35 |  #7463

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #18230800 (external link)
That still seems way out of whack given the amount of rear wing being run - I would like to know the corner because that is a lot of braking coming into a high-speed corner. Again, I'm a gt3 driver, my home track is Mosport, so I know a thing or two about high-speed corners - given that Mosport is the fastest track in North America. It might be a lock-up diff tuning thing but that massively aggressive front bias cannot be optimal. Again, I'm a rear engine gt3 driver but that does not seem optimal.

That was under heavy braking. The corner he was entering was a slow one. All of the Ferrari 458 Challenge cars where lighting up the brakes in that corner and all the other medium to slow corners. I have a friend that races in that series and will ask him about the brake bias on those cars. The 599XX cars also had red hot brakes going into those corners.


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wallstreetoneil
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Post edited over 2 years ago by wallstreetoneil.
     
Jan 02, 2017 22:20 |  #7464

klinde wrote in post #18231325 (external link)
That was under heavy braking. The corner he was entering was a slow one. All of the Ferrari 458 Challenge cars where lighting up the brakes in that corner and all the other medium to slow corners. I have a friend that races in that series and will ask him about the brake bias on those cars. The 599XX cars also had red hot brakes going into those corners.

That makes far more sense - fronts were GLOWING (rears were not working) - had to be a slow corner. In a high speed corner (4th, 5th or 6th gear type corner), you are just scrubbing some speed (Mosport 4th as an example) - no way are the rotors glowing like that. Given that is the case, and it makes sense, I have a few guesses why it might be happening:

1) mistake on the bias (dial just needed turned a click or two)
2) something was wrong / not working with the rears
3) the E-Diff, which I think may come from the 458 Street car, may not really work perfectly well on the track (i.e. not a hardened track ready Mechanical Limited Slip Diff) and may not be able to keep the rear of the car under control under heavy braking with maximum rear brake bias - and thus the way to set up the car and keep it stable under braking is to give up braking performance and use more front bias than necessary (the E-Diff would be optimal on trackout so they may just have to give up performance during corner entry / trail braking) - spec racing series have trade offs, but I just can't imagine it was 'that' off

We are way off topic, but in generally, your front tires are not as wide as your rears, so to use that much front brake (i.e not using your wide rear tires to slow you down), especially when you are running rear downforce with that wing, is way sub optimal - unless there is a reason - i.e. the E-Diff doesn't really work under sustained track conditions.

back to the regularly scheduled program


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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jaciv
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Jan 03, 2017 09:38 |  #7465

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jaciv
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Post edited over 2 years ago by jaciv.
     
Jan 03, 2017 09:41 |  #7466

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Bridgeport-2016/Bridgeport-6-11-16/i-jGbCWbG/3/L/BP-JC-6-11-16%20%28148%29ps-L.jpg
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jaciv
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Jan 03, 2017 09:47 |  #7467

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MAGICAL ­ ESKIMO
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Jan 04, 2017 11:29 |  #7468

Few shots from classic car hill climb last year

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/MgPD​Mq  (external link) Kop Hill-3367 (external link) by Luke Wanden (external link), on Flickr

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klinde
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Jan 04, 2017 11:49 |  #7469

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #18231357 (external link)
That makes far more sense - fronts were GLOWING (rears were not working) - had to be a slow corner. In a high speed corner (4th, 5th or 6th gear type corner), you are just scrubbing some speed (Mosport 4th as an example) - no way are the rotors glowing like that. Given that is the case, and it makes sense, I have a few guesses why it might be happening:

1) mistake on the bias (dial just needed turned a click or two)
2) something was wrong / not working with the rears
3) the E-Diff, which I think may come from the 458 Street car, may not really work perfectly well on the track (i.e. not a hardened track ready Mechanical Limited Slip Diff) and may not be able to keep the rear of the car under control under heavy braking with maximum rear brake bias - and thus the way to set up the car and keep it stable under braking is to give up braking performance and use more front bias than necessary (the E-Diff would be optimal on trackout so they may just have to give up performance during corner entry / trail braking) - spec racing series have trade offs, but I just can't imagine it was 'that' off

We are way off topic, but in generally, your front tires are not as wide as your rears, so to use that much front brake (i.e not using your wide rear tires to slow you down), especially when you are running rear downforce with that wing, is way sub optimal - unless there is a reason - i.e. the E-Diff doesn't really work under sustained track conditions.

back to the regularly scheduled program

Interesting info. Thanks for your analysis.


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spudrace
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Jan 04, 2017 17:07 |  #7470

SOVREN Fall Finale


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