Ethical?

On a recent visit to Africa where there was a lot of talk about wildlife and how well it was/was not doing. Then after coming home and reading on the BBC about the decline in Cheetah numbers http://www.bbc.com …ence-environment-38444969 going from vulnerable to near endangered it got me doing a lot of thinking. On a previous visit a few years ago another guests had told me about seeing a lion kill some Cheetah cubs. Now I know this is nature and as a rule we should not interfere (you do not have to tell me I am a tree huger) but in a case where an endangered spices is going to be killed (not for food) by another species do you think it ethical to interfere ie give the victim a warning that it was about to be attacked.
I know it is man that is the bigger danger to animals but should we the few that care about our wildlife do something like this?

I would say in that particular case causing a distraction with noise or arm waving would have been ok. (I have no credentials to back up my opinion and certainly someone properly educated on the subject may enlighten me)

I would have made sure I got the shot first though

I don't think that humans are as effective in helping (or influencing) animals as we like to think.

As humans, we may try and effect change on the natural balance of animals for a certain number of hours per day/week/whatever. But then we have other things to think about. We separately have jobs, shop for food and clothes and binge watch television shows like "Animal Planet". Animals are all about that natural balance, 24/7. It *is* their job. Shopping for food and clothes isn't a separate activity. They don't watch Animal Planet, they *are* the animal planet.

I don't think that the animal kingdom is supposed to have all species remain viable over time. We have emotions or feelings about it; they don't.

Now, I'm not calloused about this and I'm definitely a dog and cat rescue person. But I also know that I'm pretty much a spec of dust.

I would shoot both, and give the wildebeests a break. Now, isn't that standing up for the weak guy?

Alveric wrote in post #18233010
I would shoot both, and give the wildebeests a break. Now, isn't that standing up for the weak guy?

The post was about helping a species heading towards extinction not helping the weak.

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I would have no ethical problem with disrupting the lion's hunt, in order to keep the cheetah cubs from being killed. Why? Because we, man, are responsible of the plight of the cheetah in the first place.

If it weren't for our consumption of so much of the habitat, the cheetahs wouldn't be so scarce, and probably wouldn't be forced to live in such close proximity to lions. So, if we have created an imbalance, then it is not only ethically ok to try to offset that imbalance, but I think that to some degree we actually have a responsibility to do so. The 'nature' that exists today is not really nature at all - rather it is a small remnant of what nature really is/was. And the balance thereof is totally messed up because of Homo sapiens' encroachment upon, and consumption of, the habitat.

Unfortunately, if your friend had warned the cheetahs or driven the lions off, it really wouldn't have saved the cubs; it would have only postponed the inevitable, as the lions would just find those cubs later and kill them the next time around. That's what lions are programmed to do when other cats are in close proximity.

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[QUOTE=Tom Reichner

I would have no ethical problem with disrupting the lion's hunt, in order to keep the cheetah cubs from being killed. Why? Because we, man, are responsible of the plight of the cheetah in the first place.

If it weren't for our consumption of so much of the habitat, the cheetahs wouldn't be so scarce, and probably wouldn't be forced to live in such close proximity to lions. So, if we have created an imbalance, then it is not only ethically ok to try to offset that imbalance, but I think that to some degree we actually have a responsibility to do so. The 'nature' that exists today is not really nature at all - rather it is a small remnant of what nature really is/was. And the balance thereof is totally messed up because of Homo sapiens' encroachment upon, and consumption of, the habitat.

Unfortunately, if your friend had warned the cheetahs or driven the lions off, it really wouldn't have saved the cubs; it would have only postponed the inevitable, as the lions would just find those cubs later and kill them the next time around. That's what lions are programmed to do when other cats are in close proximity.

Thank you Tom. I agree 100% and would hope that the cubs make it. I had a lot of conversation with our guide's and they said the same thing "shrinking habitat".
The Masai people are paid to keep the Mara and other conservation areas natural for wild life and not use it for cattle grazing. However taking cattle into the reserves at night is the norm and local police and rangers will not take action until coerced into taking action, wonder why?. The marsh pride from Big Cat Diary's were poisoned because they had killed a cow (at night). What is not well published is that the cow was in the Mara conservancy and was not allowed there.
Also other animals were also poisoned as it was a water source that was poisoned. Our guides also explained that the lions also suffer. When we were there a male lion from a local pride one night ejected the juvenile males from the pride and we kept tabs on them for a few days. The direction they were going in was towards a village and there was less game in the area. He said they were in for a hard time and doubted they would all make.

And I must just be restating the above.

I'd take the statement that man is responsible for the cheetah's situation, but be a bit more blunt about it. It wasn't a responsible thing, we're just simply the cause and at fault for the situation. The responsible or respectful thing would have been to manage growth more carefully and not have disrupted the wild areas in the first place.

Our attempts to save things at this point are futile because they're already too late. And not that I wish for any further or accelerated demise of the cheetahs, but interrupting that particular hunt does nothing more than make people feel good ('cause heck, I saved them, right?) when it was our fault that the situation is our fault. We're actually hiding from the responsibility behind a veil of "responsible action".

I still think we're bigger in our minds than we really are in the real (and natural) world.

I would imagine that one would never get a chance to think about how to react in a situation like this.

You either act spontaneously,. in which case no moral debate took place, or you freeze and watch, .. ditto.

If I heard about someone that did actually manage to save cheetah cubs this way, I'd be pretty impressed with their ability to react fast enough to have any effect. I am not sure If I would ponder the ethical implications.

Photographers of course are a group of observers at heart.

Worst case scenario for your conscious? your attempt to "warn' cubs instead simply distracts them further from the impending doom, and you spend the rest of your life thinking "if only I had not waved my arms, maybe they would have sensed the lion and lived"

Anyway, just my take.