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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 06 Dec 2015 (Sunday) 09:51
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GODOX AD600 Witstro

 
deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 12:36 |  #1576
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bobbyz wrote in post #18234080 (external link)
Personally whether one shoots RAW or JPEG doesn't matter much. Nor does one really needs to use this RAW Digger.

BobbyZ, the premise was

"...We do, however, have a complete team of Flashpoint / Godox experts..."

so one can assume that "complete team of experts" can do some numbers with exactly the same equipment not visual observations from OOC JPG from a different camera/lens (I am not going to quote the reply from Shua here - but I fully intend to repeat the test in RAW+JPG and post for everybody to download and study both raw files + ooc jpg files + screenshots from the rear LCD (as I was asked in my discussion ny email)... the problem is either there or it is not... when I make a claim a prefer to supply as much technical details as I can myself... as I am a raw shooter I do care what is in the raw file and I don't really what is in OOC JPG (more so the proper exposure for raw file for later raw conversion off camera means overexposed OOC JPG in most cases if not all).

if I am wrong with __my__ test setup I will be more than happy to see what was wrong then...

bobbyz wrote in post #18234080 (external link)
Just too busy at work otherwise would have picked up a Sony A7RII from co-workers to do some tests myself.

and lens... it might matter / it was suggested earlier in this thread, no ? / if TTL preflash done with FE lens with firmware stopping it down to working aperture or not (old firmware ???) or TTL preflash is done with adapted lens (then Sigma MC-11 for example might work differently for Sigma lenses with EF mount and non Sigma lenses with EF mount) - where it may or may not stop it down like native FE mount lens ... I specifically for now test with FE 55/1.8 lens with the latest firmware on A7R2 and lens and not something else.




  
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bobbyz
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Jan 05, 2017 15:05 |  #1577

Just do simple tests, don't make it over complicated than it needs to be. Lens should not matter unless different Sony lenses are giving you different results. Just take shots at different apertures (RAW or JPEG) and just post samples. If you shoot a target with black, white, gray so three peaks, it is ideal. You don't want something confusing your eTTL. I would laso pick 1/200 or even 1/160 ss. You may all disagree but I this is what I would do.


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Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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Charlie
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Jan 05, 2017 15:21 |  #1578

Deejjjaaa, did you happen to have multiple strobes TTL? Going to try turning off everything then do tests.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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eventsof1768
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Jan 05, 2017 18:06 |  #1579

Probably asked a million times already but I cannot find it anywhere - but how many more stops is an AD600 compared to speedlite?


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rebelsimon
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Jan 05, 2017 18:31 as a reply to  @ eventsof1768's post |  #1580

It will depend on your application (fresnel lens vs. bare bulb), but about 3 stops? That would be the equivalent of 8 speed lights.


Toronto area photographer http://www.SimonMellic​kPhotography.com (external link)
Cameras:5Diii (x2), 70D
Lenses:Rokinon 14mm f2.8, Voightlander 20mm f3.5, Canon 24-70 f2.8ii, Tamron 35mm f1.8 VC, Canon 50mm STM, Tamron 90mm 2.8 VC, Canon 135mm f2
Lights: AD600, AD200 (x2), V850 (x4)

  
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deejjjaaaa
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Jan 05, 2017 20:58 |  #1581
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Charlie wrote in post #18234541 (external link)
Deejjjaaa, did you happen to have multiple strobes TTL? Going to try turning off everything then do tests.

I do, but I am naturally testing : one camera, one lens, one transmitter and one strobe... why'd you think I will try to complicate the test with using more than one strobe ?




  
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nixland
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Jan 05, 2017 21:01 |  #1582

I don't have the AD600 yet,
but for AD360, if the angle of light spread is about the same between AD360 and speedlite (AD360 with its reflector and V860 with zoom to 28mm), based on my test the AD360 is 3 1/3 stops higher than V860 speedlite. Its equal to 8 to 9 speedlite (V860).

AD600 is about 2/3 stops or more than AD360.




  
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deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (7 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:05 |  #1583
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Adorama, here I am with the 2nd test for Shua K :twisted:

this post will be long and I will be doing multiple edits adding the text, be patient.

---

let us start with OOC JPG files as Shua @ Adorama asked for that...

f2.0 :

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/efcadln1h/DSC00781.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/efcadln1h/  (external link)

f2.8 :
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/tpc5ksijp/DSC00782.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/tpc5ksijp/  (external link)

f4.0 :
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/aya8amnz9/DSC00783.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/aya8amnz9/  (external link)

f5.6 :
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/flgacebc5/DSC00784.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/flgacebc5/  (external link)

f8.0 :
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/gnvis20h1/DSC00785.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/gnvis20h1/  (external link)

f11.0 :
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/4na2rbt2d/DSC00786.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/4na2rbt2d/  (external link)


what did I say ? yes, only from f4 onwards TTL with Sony mount transmitter is as it should be and consistent within acceptable range


do you want corresponding raw files to dig into with rawdigger ? please = https://app.box.com …qhe0o2a5ipbebtv​1ezecoj8i5 (external link)

---

now let me repeat how the camera/etc were setup, I did some minor changes as Shua @ Adoram asked in his emails :

- Sony A7R2, firmware version "3.30" + FE55/1.8 lens, firmware version "02"
- no ambient light / no LED model light from the strobe to make sure we are dealing with strobe output only
- Flashpoint AC Adapter Unit for the XPLOR 600 R2 series monolights to make sure we have power for strobe (safer than battery)
- spot metering (not matrix, not center-w, no face detection/eye AF) + camera on tripod + totally static scene (inc. remote camera triggering) = so make sure we have identical conditions, including getting raw data with Rawdigger
- M mode on camera with fixed ISO = ISO 100, exposure time = 1/250s, which is x-sync for Sony A7R2
- making sure we have enough time for strobe to recharge between shots and we are not getting close to its power output limit (on both max and min power sides of the output range)
- Strobe firmware version "2.3"
- Transmitter firmware version "1.4"
- Shooting distance = at least 2-3 times x "minimum focus distance" for the lens
- Target is a uniform surface (plain styrofoam) with spot metering area completely inside it with a lot of margin around
- FEC on strobe not used/zero
- FEC on camera not used/zero
- FEC on transmitter not used/zero
- paid attention than no residual EC was left in camera from A mode by any chance
- no HSS of course
- as Shua asked manual focusing keeping styrofoam target defocused (as I did not touch anything during the shooting by f11 it gets within DOF area of course, but it does not matter really)
- one strobe used of course

---

Shua asked if TTL was +0 on strobe ? of course it was was then and it was now =

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/63ll9gvz9/20170105_214529.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/63ll9gvz9/  (external link)

this is strobe's screen with camera on and transmitter on

---

how about transmitter ? here we go =
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/uy533jgth/20170105_214451.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/uy533jgth/  (external link)

---

as I am limited to ~8 thumbnails I will continue in the next post



  
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deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (5 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:25 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1584
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camera's top = M mode and EC = zero on the dial too =

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/eoex0n65h/20170105_212736.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/eoex0n65h/  (external link)

FEC in camera ? zeroed & spot metering too as noted =
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/nkpp4kwrp/20170105_213812.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/nkpp4kwrp/  (external link)

1/250s & ISO=100... also you can see the circle in the frame - this is spotmetered area for A7R2 =
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/lhf9wwwyt/20170105_213728.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/lhf9wwwyt/  (external link)



  
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deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (5 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:31 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1585
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continuation,

Shua asked for screenshots of the rear lcd for each shot (not sure what it point to see what can be seen in raw, but here they are - even OOC JPG histograms are telling the story), so let us go:

f2.0 =

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/yzm697945/20170105_215022.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/yzm697945/  (external link)

f2.8 = ... as you can see it does not image becomes brighter ...
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/gzcz4tgx1/20170105_215029.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/gzcz4tgx1/  (external link)

f4.0 = ... as you can see it does not image becomes brighter ...
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/cdlga7krp/20170105_215037.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/cdlga7krp/  (external link)

f5.6 = ... from f4 onwards TTL works ...
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/7t3v90qg5/20170105_215043.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/7t3v90qg5/  (external link)

f8.0 = ... from f4 onwards TTL works ...
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/6s3mjw9gl/20170105_215049.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/6s3mjw9gl/  (external link)

f11.0 = ... from f4 onwards TTL works ...
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/t5bd6paed/20170105_215057.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/t5bd6paed/  (external link)



  
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deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:42 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1586
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continuation, time to dig into raw files :

f2.0

select center 400x400 spot

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/6tmr4sq1x/20170105_225742.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/6tmr4sq1x/  (external link)

measure raw channels data
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/3rvyuucx1/20170105_230807.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/3rvyuucx1/  (external link)


and

f4.0

select center 400x400 spot
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/78y0xtbz9/20170105_230334.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/78y0xtbz9/  (external link)

measure raw channels data
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/8p9jfyew5/20170105_230350.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/8p9jfyew5/  (external link)



  
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deejjjaaaa
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (9 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:43 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1587
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continuation, screenshots of camera setting from menu, set #1:

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/nc5wjvo4l/20170105_214659.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/nc5wjvo4l/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/pbhwxjt2d/20170105_212839.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/pbhwxjt2d/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/jolk02qjp/20170105_212917.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/jolk02qjp/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/pqt6qkezp/20170105_213011.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/pqt6qkezp/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/f59bek8o5/20170105_213118.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/f59bek8o5/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/m9r4nlfxh/20170105_213141.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/m9r4nlfxh/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/y0524z8px/20170105_213158.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/y0524z8px/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/3k3qklckl/20170105_213216.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/3k3qklckl/  (external link)



  
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Jan 05, 2017 21:44 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1588
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continuation, screenshots of camera setting from menu, set #2:

IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/wcai42k85/20170105_213256.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/wcai42k85/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/yuw74r5yd/20170105_213307.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/yuw74r5yd/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/ixxf81dk5/20170105_213320.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/ixxf81dk5/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/67t6uy5lx/20170105_213332.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/67t6uy5lx/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/nmdf382qt/20170105_213343.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/nmdf382qt/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/m8ls7x3hh/20170105_213407.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/m8ls7x3hh/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/7td20i57p/20170105_213421.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/7td20i57p/  (external link)
IMAGE: https://s26.postimg.org/xdfc6xqlh/20170105_213434.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://postimg.org/im​age/xdfc6xqlh/  (external link)



  
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Post edited over 2 years ago by deejjjaaaa. (5 edits in all)
     
Jan 05, 2017 21:57 as a reply to  @ deejjjaaaa's post |  #1589
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final word - did I miss something ?

exposure difference as measured in raw data in the same spot where spot metering was is

f2.0, green channel = ~664 DN
f4.0, green channel = ~2772 DN

how much is the difference in stops ? 2 stops ... 2 stops, Carl !!! that is when TTL is supposed to keep it the same, at least within 1/3 stops... as Sony TTL flash several posts above does perfectly ! as FP/Godox does from f4 onwards... but WTF is between f2 and f4 ?




  
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Charlie
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Jan 05, 2017 22:39 |  #1590

deejjjaaaa wrote in post #18234896 (external link)
I do, but I am naturally testing : one camera, one lens, one transmitter and one strobe... why'd you think I will try to complicate the test with using more than one strobe ?

Not saying to complicate, just wondering if lingering settings would cause the issue. I had group A TTL, b manual, C TTL. Only C was being used, A and B not turned off, and not being used either.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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