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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 29 Jan 2016 (Friday) 14:35
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Photo Rights if No Contract

 
Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 19, 2016 13:10 as a reply to  @ post 18217650 |  #46

Thank you. Yes I have done the screen shots of her social media and I still have messages that was sent. I also gave her half her money back. My request that she removes them off social media and not to use on he website.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Dec 19, 2016 23:26 as a reply to  @ post 18217565 |  #47

Sorry I don't understand why you refunded half the money?

Did she accept all the pictures? If so why a refund?

Did she reject all the pictures? If so why refund only half the money?

Did she accept all the images except the 7-8 (out of 90) with the AC in? Is it these 7-8 images she is now using or the others?


Dan Marchant
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Scott ­ Spellman
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Scott Spellman.
     
Dec 20, 2016 03:04 |  #48

Niko McCarter Photography wrote in post #18217565 (external link)
Good day people. So I need a little advice. I had a client come to me for images for a online website. I spent 3hr with her and her models. We went through the images about 125 got down to 90 images delivered. So there were images taking in a hotel room with the AC unit in the floor in the pics. before we started in the room I said this is not a good spot. She this is where she wanted them to be. OK cool so once images was delivered she stated that she thought I was going to remove the AC unit.. I told her no that is another fee. I do just shoot to remove thing out the image. So that was about 7 or 8 of the 90 images. So long story short instead of arguing and being bad mouth through social media I gave half he money back and locked down the images on my website. This was about 4mths ago. I just learned through a mutual friend that there were screen shots take and now she is posting them on social media to make profit off the items the models are wearing. Is there anything that I can do about this other than asking them to remove the images or do they have rights to the images? There was no contract signed.

This is very confusing. You refunded the client 50% of the fee because she did not agree to extra retouching and you wanted to avoid a confrontation? You sent the images to the client, but now because of your refund you don't want them to use any of the photos at all? You say there is no signed contract, but was there any other terms/agreement by email or verbal?




  
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Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 20, 2016 17:17 as a reply to  @ Scott Spellman's post |  #49

Basically correct. No emails other than her choosing the images she wanted and paid for. I gave her half back due to me thinking she didnt screen shot any pics.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Dec 20, 2016 20:51 |  #50

Niko McCarter Photography wrote in post #18219067 (external link)
Basically correct. No emails other than her choosing the images she wanted and paid for. I gave her half back due to me thinking she didnt screen shot any pics.

Sorry you still aren't provding any meaningful detail/answers to our questions.

When she said she was unhappy what EXACTLY did you agree with her.
Is she allowed to use the images, not use the images, use some of them?
If she is not allowed to use any then why did you only refund 50%?
Which images did she screenshot and use?


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Scott ­ Spellman
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Dec 20, 2016 22:37 |  #51

Niko McCarter Photography wrote in post #18219067 (external link)
Basically correct. No emails other than her choosing the images she wanted and paid for. I gave her half back due to me thinking she didnt screen shot any pics.

I can't think of any other professional service where you would expect your client to be satisfied with no delivery of the product/service just because you refunded 50% of the fee. If you do not completely rework how you communicate with clients, set terms/contract for the shoot, and manage the shoot/service/delivery​-then I see many more conflicts and unhappy clients in your future.




  
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Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 21, 2016 16:18 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #52

She was unhappy because she thought I was going to remove the AC unit out of the pictures. I told her that the AC unit wasnt going to look right in the images. She still wanted the images taken. Over course she would have been able to use the pictures that she chose but she didnt choose any because she stressed either editing refunding her money are reshooting. I wasnt editing I was too booked to reshoot. So I felt the only reasonable thing to do was at least give her half back. But after 2 months ive seen on FB that she screen shot images before she spoke with me about reshooting.


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Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 21, 2016 16:22 as a reply to  @ Scott Spellman's post |  #53

Thanks


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Dec 21, 2016 22:06 |  #54

You entered into an (unwritten) contract. The terms of that contract are that you shoot photos, she pays you, she gets a license to use the images.

She was unhappy with some images and you choose to give her back 50% of the money. This in no way alters the fact that you granted her a license to use the images. If you wanted her not to use any of the images you would have to agree that with her and refund all the money. You didn't so her use of the images is legal.

In fact, if she was forced to screen shot the images because you didn't provide finished image files she might have grounds to sue you.

This is an excellent example of why you need a written contract which clearly states what you will do (shoot, provide images) and what you wont do (editing, post processing).


Dan Marchant
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mikeinctown
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Dec 22, 2016 07:55 |  #55

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18220281 (external link)
You entered into an (unwritten) contract. The terms of that contract are that you shoot photos, she pays you, she gets a license to use the images.

She was unhappy with some images and you choose to give her back 50% of the money. This in no way alters the fact that you granted her a license to use the images. If you wanted her not to use any of the images you would have to agree that with her and refund all the money. You didn't so her use of the images is legal.

In fact, if she was forced to screen shot the images because you didn't provide finished image files she might have grounds to sue you.

This is an excellent example of why you need a written contract which clearly states what you will do (shoot, provide images) and what you wont do (editing, post processing).

Something is not right here with the explanation. While I agree with you, it makes zero sense that he would have charged $x dollars and not delivered a single photo. (and you would be correct in that the client could then sue) So I'm thinking that he delivered a bunch of acceptable ones that he has no issue with the usage, but that these specific ones with the A/C unit in them have beeen the point of contention. I'm assuming that he refunded the money and is not allowing use of the ones with the A/C in the photo and that the client is using those photos against his wishes. if this is the case, then the client is in the wrong because they are using images that they claimed they did not want, and which the property owner refunded the money for and locked the client out from usage.




  
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Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 22, 2016 14:23 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #56

Best answer ever.. Thank you so much Dan. I took it as if she screen shot the images before we talked about me not removing the AC unit. Because she said she could only use certain images and those are the same images that I am seeing on social media. But thank you so much. Dan is there a contract templete you go by? I have never had this happen in 3yrs is why I didnt think I needed one. But hey best to have it now I see.


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Niko ­ McCarter ­ Photography
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Dec 22, 2016 14:34 as a reply to  @ mikeinctown's post |  #57

Well she is using those with the AC unit but cropped out. I gave her the opportunity to choose the ones she wanted and she stated she could only use some. I stated ok but I can not remove the AC as I told you it wouldnt look right from the jump. I then told her to let me take a look at the images one I got back to my laptop to see what can be done and how I can fix it. Then before then she came back with forget it I want to either reshoot or get my money back. This is where I felt something was odd. Picture is included


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Deardorff
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Jan 09, 2017 16:57 |  #58

gjl711 wrote in post #17879503 (external link)
I read it the other way around, that the employer has copyright unless the contract states otherwise.

Was he a legal "Employee"?

What does the metadata for the images say? Does it identify you as the photographer? Did you set it up so every image has your copyright notice in the metadata?


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Photo Rights if No Contract
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