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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 13 Jan 2017 (Friday) 14:49
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80d or glass

 
AlanU
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Jan 13, 2017 19:41 |  #16

ericz34 wrote in post #18243473 (external link)
Dynamic range! Not DOF Ha! I apologize for that. (I'm an idiot lol)

I really appreciate the advice! There's a couple of things I never thought of. To boil it down, I think the main things that become a hindrance to my photography are that the images can be a little soft at times. There seems to be a lack of sharpness that isn't out of this world but would like to improve. So that's a matter of better glass. I also like shooting when it's darker, and the noise can usually be fixed in Lightroom (again nothing out of this world) but better lowlight capability would always be nice. Especially for shooting into the stars.

So maybe Decent apps-c lens that's fast?

Before you jump into buying any gear please analyze your gear as well as your technical knowledge of photography.

Is your 24 f/2.8 sharp???? I'm quite pleased with the image quality it produces on my 80D.

You may possibly be having issues with AF due to the combination of your camera's calibration and lens calibration. This is where the 80D has micro AF adjust so you can tweak part of the camera's calibration so you can get tack sharp images.

Also watch your shutter speed and see if your having getting motion blur causing soft images.

Now you can see why there are benefits in shooting with mirrorless bodies. No tweaking of AF required.

My preference requires a camera body that has Micro adjust or simply using a mirrorless body.


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bumpintheroad
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Jan 14, 2017 02:45 |  #17

I'm tending to agree with Bassat on this one. The more investment you make in EF-S glass the more you're stuck with crop bodies. The 80D reportedly has one stop more DR than the 6D. But in every other way that matters for landscapes, the 6D is a better camera. And, eventually, the 6d2 will catch-up or even surpass the 80D on the DR front.

If you told me you also wanted to take photos of your kids running around and playing sports, or had an interest in video, or birds-in-flight, or anything that involved moving subjects I'd recommend you get the 80D. But if you have $2k cash to spend and want to put it where it will provide the best capabilities for landscape photography, while also still having the ability to shoot people, travel, and family/friends gatherings, I would make the switch to FF now by doing the following:

Starting with your $2k cash, sell all your crop sensor gear: T6i ($400), 24/2.8 STM ($75), 18-55 STM ($75) and 18-135 STM ($275) for a net of around $2825.

Buy:

  • Canon 6D ($900 used)
  • Canon 24-105/4L IS Mk1 ($425 used) as your "general purpose' lens
  • Rokinon 14/2.8 ($275 used)
  • Canon 35/2 IS ($425 used), or 28/1.8 ($300 used), or maybe neither because the 24-105 is very good at the wide end
  • Manfrotto 55CXPro3 carbon fiber tripod legs ($342 new, cause nobody who owns will sell)
  • Sirui K-20X ball head ($120 new, ditto above)
  • Wired shutter switch ($20-50)

Maybe you want to keep some long-reach capabilities in the event some picturesque wildlife intrude into your landscape. In which case you can drop the 35 (or 28, if you were so inclined) and just use the 24-105 at the wider end (if the 14 is too wide), instead opting for either a 70-200/4L IS (lighter, $725) or 70-300/4-5.6L IS (longer, also $725) instead.

As much as I love my 80D, if the rumors are true I'll buy a 6D2 sometime after its release (when some deals show up) and start selling off my crop-sensor gear. I'll miss having a the 17-55/2.8 IS and the Tokina 11-16/2.8, but I have some primes to carry me until I can afford the faster FF zooms to replace them.

Anyway, your initial thought that FF was out of your reach is not accurate. As to whether that would result in better photos depends a great deal on you.

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FarmerTed1971
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Jan 14, 2017 02:49 |  #18

Here's another vote for a 6D.


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tdlavigne
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Jan 14, 2017 03:12 |  #19

Depends on what glass you're thinking of. Like "nice" nice, or just ok lenses. That'd make a huge difference to your photography right there. Pairing an ok body with top of the line lenses will generally be a bigger improvement than pairing a top of the line body with "meh" lenses.

Also, are you planning on keeping your old gear? If not, selling can add a bit to your budget as well.

For 2k, I'd probably opt for both of the Sigma 1.8 zooms (I see they're both $1900 total at the moment). If you sold the old body and the 2 kit lenses and 50 (redundant now with the 2 1.8 zooms), you could probably get a used 70 or 80D too (I'm betting on you being able to sell the body and all 3 lenses either together or seperately for ~800).

That'd probably be my first choice, as it would get you 2 really good lenses that pair well together and also a slightly better body.

Option 2 would be take that 2k, and sell your old kit (again, 700-800 should be reasonable if local sales are any indication) and you can get a used 6D and at the very least a 16-35 or 24-70 (f4 or 2.8 v1 for both) and still have some left over for a used Art prime.

Sky's the limit really, just depends on what's more important to you: AF, video, low-light performance, FF dof benefits, what lenses, etc.




  
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Bassat
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Jan 14, 2017 07:15 |  #20
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tdlavigne wrote in post #18243921 (external link)
Depends on what glass you're thinking of. Like "nice" nice, or just ok lenses. That'd make a huge difference to your photography right there. Pairing an ok body with top of the line lenses will generally be a bigger improvement than pairing a top of the line body with "meh" lenses.

...

Sky's the limit really, just depends on what's more important to you: AF, video, low-light performance, FF dof benefits, what lenses, etc.

First off, I agree with 'bumpintheroad's' post above (not quoted).

For this post, I find it odd to refer to "ok" and "top-of-the-line" bodies. IMHO, which body you are using has just about no effect on IQ. Bodies are in the business of providing FEATURES, not IQ. For the average run of the mill, soccer mom shot, which body is being used is almost irrelevant. For any shot you can get with a T2i, a 1DXII has very little to add. Better cameras, with better features allow a wider array of photos to be captured. I don't think anyone (who knows what they are doing) buys a specific body based on the image quality it produces.




  
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TeamSpeed
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Post edited over 4 years ago by TeamSpeed. (6 edits in all)
     
Jan 14, 2017 08:44 |  #21

A person comes in and has a very capable kit now, and it appears it just needs tweaked a bit, and we get suggestions to completely sell off everything and completely switch formats and lenses?

I am pretty sure there are other suggestions that sit somewhere in between.

1) The T4i is more than adequate for landscapes, period. There are countless BEAUTIFUL landscape photos even here on POTN from the 7D era and beyond using good techniques and glass.

2) Choosing the right lens and filters like ND filters, or gradients and a good tripod will help immensely.

3) Learning composition and post processing just takes time and no cash out of pocket.

The only time I would suggest someone switch formats and lenses and go through the painstaking task of selling things on the used market and search for other gear, followed by learning all of that would be if they have maxed out their capabilities of what they have. Otherwise, it could be a very fruitless exercise in doing all of that work and still end up with mediocre results because these other things weren't tackled first?

I think saving some cash now and getting a more landscape friendly lens would help, along with some other things. After that is done, the 80D is a great option due to its increased DR, the single largest factor touted by landscapers over the past years using Canon's older sensor designs, or wait a bit longer to see what is about to be announced, using all that hard earned saved cash for that next gen offering.

This article compares the FF 1DS3 to an APS-C, and as you can see, a new generation crop body with DR greater than the FF it is compared to will fare better in the end, so I would say that this comparison could be extrapolated to show the 80D to be more useful long-term than a 6D. Now a 6D2, if it ever comes to market and it has the new sensor, would then better the 80D, especially if it has more resolution than it does today.

http://www.aevansphoto​.com …rame-to-aps-c-landscapes/ (external link)


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ericz34
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Jan 14, 2017 13:39 |  #22

I really want to thank all of you who have posted! The amount of advice and information I've received has been a real eye opener and more than I thought I'd receive. I actually won't sell my old gear, I'd pass it on to the wife. The t6i is a small body and she enjoys learning on it so I don't mind if I keep investing in it since I'll technically be keeping it.

I thought long and hard about it since I started this thread and have decided to invest in better gear and continue saving some money on the side for either the 6D2 or until I've used the t6i to its full capacity and need a new body. I'd like some filters as someone above mentioned, some wide angle lenses and maybe a sturdier tripod than my current $50 tripod lol. As well as working on my own self to improve my composition and Skills.

Im fairly new to photography, only about 1.5 years. Now I know it sounds crazy, but man has my life changed. It's inspired me to get out more, travel more, and just do more. I love grabing my camera and figuring out where to go for a good shot. I've been on more road trips in that year than I have my whole life lol. I've always been a very creative and artistic person so naturally I think that's how I ended up here. But if I've ever had a crazy burning love and passion it would be photography. So thank you all for the advice!




  
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crbinson
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Jan 14, 2017 19:21 as a reply to  @ ericz34's post |  #23

Just popped up on the board...
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1474225


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AlanU
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Post edited over 4 years ago by AlanU.
     
Jan 14, 2017 20:38 |  #24

Ericz,

Since your keeping your Rebel & gear I'd suggest the 10-22 f/3.5-4.5. For the canon world you really don't have that many alternatives for UWA besides Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 (apparently has an issue of losing/defective AF in due time), sigma 10-20 f/3.5 or slow 10-18 canon STM lens. There are other alternatives too......

I'll have to say purchasing the 10-22 has made me impressed with a variable aperture zoom. I fully accepted the 100-400L being a variable aperture lens but otherwise I NEVER buy variable aperture lenses as you can loose artistic control as the lens changes aperture that is out of your control.

I use my 5d2 and 5d3 alot with the 16-35L f/2.8mk2 combo for paid events. The 10-22 zoom with my 80D has produced excellent image quality and sharpness. If I had to use remote flash and onboard flash I know I can use my 80D and 10-22 for events photography if I had too.

The 10-18 is f/5.6 on the long end (18mm) That becomes quite slow for other applications. I can just tolerate f/4.5 @ 22mm with my UWA lens and be very pleased with the results. This now becomes more of a personal preference thing........

My suggestion is to at least stretch and allow yourself to get 1 more dedicated EF-S UWA lens. Getting a 16-35mm or 24-70L will allow more versatility with your crop sensor body while being compatible to a future FULL Frame body.

I use my 16-35 f/2.8mk2 alot with my 80D as a "Normal" medium telephoto zoom. I get fantastic results with it. The 16-35 f/4IS was dreadful in acquiring focus when i had direct sun "in lens" getting intentional flare shots while the 16-35 f/2.8 mk2 AF NO PROBLEMS. Even though I loved the image quality of the f/4IS I had to dump it and let it go with sadness.

Another suggestion is to go to costco and buy the CHEAP!!!!! kit of $1399 with 18-55 and 55-250 STM kit. Sell both of the lenses to recoup some money. Sell your T6i and replace it with an 80d. This will allow you to have better iso performance, improved dynamic range and killer dual pixel AF for video, jump in faster AF with more cross points.

In the used market there are alot of 10-22 UWA lenses you can buy in mint shape. Many people are buying cheaper 6d full frames these days and buying the cheaper 16-35 f/4IS or 17-40L for UWA applications. You will appreciate faster f/3.5 to f/4.5 vs the 10-18 f/4.5-5.6. Faster glass does make a difference if you have any moving subjects. It was definitely worth spending more for the 10-22 for my application.


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tdlavigne
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Jan 14, 2017 22:37 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #25

Good to hear; I'll just chuck my D800e in the bin and grab my old D70 from 2006 :)

Bodies do provide better IQ, if you think in terms of resolution, noise, and dynamic range. Loved the 7D, except it's files were noisier than a Metallica concert. I'd say the 5DIII in that respect has better IQ. Loved the 5DIII, except for when I needed more dynamic range than the sensor was capable of providing. My Nikon bodies IMO (before anyone with self-esteem issues chimes in) have better IQ in that regard. Resolution, same.

Maybe it's a Canon thing, I wouldn't know...no longer shoot it. BUT there's a HUGE difference in for example a Sony A7 and A7RII, same for a D3400 and D810. Just like there was a HUGE difference in the Rebel XT I used for fun stuff, and the 5DII and III I used for work. Also, wasn't aware we were being dismissive of the OP as a "run of the mill" photo shooting, Soccer Mom; I assumed that they were taking the hobby a little more seriously than that considering they were here on this site, asking questions, and considering a large purchase. And I dunno if that was a dig at me, but yeah...I buy bodies based on their potential for better IQ *shrug*, is this the part where I toss out the B.A., client list, and tax returns? If you can't see the difference in IQ between say a T2i and 5DSR, then maybe you're doing something wrong? Not being facetious, but genuinely curious.




  
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Jan 15, 2017 15:31 |  #26

ericz34 wrote in post #18243440 (external link)
I currently have a t6i
24m 2.8
50m 1.8
18-55 kit
18-135 kit

My style of photography has developed into landscape photography and although I'd like a FF body it's out of my budget with FF lens prices (about 2k budget if I really stretch it for lens and body). So I was considering an 80D because of its nicer DOF. Or just get some nicer glass which is usually the more obvious option, I just want a nicer body haha. I was thinking the sigma 18-35 1.8 and maybe the rokinon 16m 2.0 but I would only use this one for Astrophotography.
Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
Thanks in advance!

Almost, always get a lens over a body. Almost. What about the Tamron 17-55? Get that and use that with the T6i, take some shots. I do not know how an 80D would give you a better picture.


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Jan 15, 2017 22:16 as a reply to  @ cameraperson's post |  #27

Better DR would be one way.


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AlanU
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Jan 15, 2017 22:19 |  #28

cameraperson wrote in post #18245291 (external link)
Almost, always get a lens over a body. Almost. What about the Tamron 17-55? Get that and use that with the T6i, take some shots. I do not know how an 80D would give you a better picture.

80D has better dynamic range and dual pixel AF. Running and gunning it's just a bit easier having the incredible AF for video using the 80D over a T6i.

Sometime's its a matter of the skills of the photographer with "more" capable gear that can make a visual difference.

Different lenses in general will be a welcoming difference for different perspective.


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Jan 16, 2017 15:46 |  #29

ericz34 wrote in post #18243451 (external link)
. . .many said that the 80d had better depth of field than the t6i.. (maybe not nicer, but better? Lack of wording lol)

Depth of field is a quantitative thing, not a qualitative thing. You either have more (deeper) depth of field or less (shallower) depth of field. Depth of field has nothing to do with "quality" or "niceness", just with how much, period.

The t6i and the 80D have the same size sensor, so you will get the same depth of field represented in your images from either body, all else being equal (and there is no viable reason for all else not to be equal).

ericz34 wrote in post #18244284 (external link)
I know it sounds crazy, but man has my life changed! . . . I love grabing my camera and figuring out where to go for a good shot. I've been on more road trips in that year than I have my whole life! . . . If I've ever had a crazy burning love and passion it would be photography.

I so completely relate to all that you said there! You are a kindred spirit!

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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80d or glass
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