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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 13 Dec 2016 (Tuesday) 23:23
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No, I don't give you a disc and a release!

 
Tom ­ Reichner
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Jan 16, 2017 16:08 as a reply to  @ post 18245820 |  #31

.

Peter,

That post is probably the best and most insightful thing I have ever read here on POTN. Thank you for taking the time to rebut each and every one of the OP's poorly founded assumptions.

I really enjoyed reading that!


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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aladyforty
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Jan 16, 2017 22:36 |  #32

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #18245820 (external link)
I agree with many of the other comments. Punters don't care about what upsets you... they care about knowing what they'll get and how much it will cost

You just established it is standard practice.

You can't charge a fee and give the product away simultaneously. They are selling the product, not giving it away.

You don't charge people?

"I charge you as much as I can get away with charging." Who "tries" to price anyway.

Word salad. I'm going to demean and rant... but I'm trying to claim I'm not by dropping in the disclaimer first. Chances are though you'll think I'm doing exactly what I reckon I'm trying not to do.

Who when trying to sell something isn't working hard? I.e. you do what every other business on the planet does... try to not give the client crud.

Fancy that... a business spending money on equipment it needs to produce the product they sell. Trying to guilt the client because as a business you have to buy equipment... really?

I.e. you do what every other photographer does. It doesn't pay to plug what is in fact just doing a run of the mill part of the job.

1) You haven't spent that much at all. By the time you've shelled out for a decent editing rig, desk, office setup etc you've maybe got change for a body and a few lenses. I.e. You've spent not far off the bare minimum anyone would expect someone to spend to start as a photography business.

2) They aren't giving anything away. They are selling it.

Yes it is. The perception from what you wrote is this... I've spent money on my business now I need to make it back. I'm not happy about other people's business models. I think I'm special because I do the basics any photographer would do... and... I really need to make some money.

I'd be a lot more worried about what you're prone to rant about hurting your reputation to be honest.

I have to be honest when saying this but looking at your people work there is nothing special about it. I.e. Nothing that people won't find similar to in lots of other places. It's just... well... very ordinary. If you're going to pull the artist card on people you really need to be able to walk the walk.



"It's your fault if my work doesn't improve, because I only produce great work for money".

A true artist would never say anything like that. A true artist creates art for arts sake.

That is a backhanded way of telling the potential client that they don't know what is good and what isn't.

A lesson for you. In the portrait game (and especially on social media) emotion ALWAYS trumps anything else with an image. ALWAYS. People compliment and like images etc because they feel something. You telling people that that is wrong (which is what you are effectively doing) shows a lack of understanding of the medium. Have you ever noticed how people will always compliment on baby pictures even if the baby looks like a cross between E.T. and Jabba the Hutt? Emotional attachment.

Unless you are really bringing something top drawer to the table... you don't want to go down the route of telling people what they should and shouldn't like.



That just comes across pretentious.



you just took the words right out of my mouth :-)


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-Duck-
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Jan 16, 2017 23:56 |  #33

My day job is tattooing. I have been tattooing 23 years this coming summer and 13 years in my current location. In the tattoo community there are basement scratchers and wannabe hacks. Tattoo shops come and go quickly because someone thinks it's quick, easy money and they can have fun hanging out with their friends. Up the street from me is another tattoo shop that's been in business just as long as I have. Around the corner is another shop that opened up about 4-5 years ago. I can walk to both these locations and not get winded, they are so close. If you ask me if I consider them competition I'll tell you, "not at all," with the straightest of faces and mean it. Why? Because I could care less about those other shops. I only care about my shop.

I've learned a lot about dealing with the public in the 23 years as a tattoo artist. One that I know will serve me well as I transition more into professional photography. Every trade has their share of scratchers. You can't avoid them. All you can do is prove, by example, that you provide a service and a product far beyond what any weekend warrior with a CD sales plan can offer. When you know yourself you also learn to trust yourself and when that happens it doesn't matter who is doing what around you.

There is a ton of good information in this thread that, as mentioned previously, is based on hard earned past experience. When someone who's, "been there, done that," sees someone else going down the same path it's easy to get emotional. They are only trying to avoid the tragic accident they see you heading to. Don't take offense. Instead, look at the underlying theme all these post are telling you and you'll see there is a pattern.

There is an old adage that is appropriate here;
"If one person tells you something, it's an opinion. If everyone tell you the same thing, it's a fact."

On a separate note; I also visited your site and agree there are issues that need to be addressed. The "Buy" on every image regardless of who would order it is a big issue. You also have a bunch of links that open new browser windows needlessly. The information under "Details" can use a good revamping. It's a little scattered and confusing.

Best of luck.


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98kellrs
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Jan 17, 2017 02:39 |  #34

Wow...I have no words for that rant by the OP.

All I can say is good luck with your venture.


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kjonnnn
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Post edited over 2 years ago by kjonnnn with reason 'typos'. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 17, 2017 11:55 |  #35

This kinda of screams "my prices are high and I'm going to convince you why you should pay them." Im probably more consumer than photographer and frankly the whole rant is just a turn off. I'm just not going reading all of that. If your images dont sell me, your backstory certainly won't.

As for you stating that you have $10,000 worth of equipment, I'm at best a serious amatuer and I have at least $12,000 worth, so that boast is meaningless as evidence to your expertise and skill.

Since you are so concerned with how your photos are presented, printed and look, think on this. If you didnt give me digital files, I'd probably just scan my prints or worse, take a photo of some of them with my phone. Phones take pretty good snapshots these days, and for sharing on social media, the quality of those shots would be more than enough.




  
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ptcanon3ti
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Jan 17, 2017 16:54 |  #36

Lol. I think the OP has abandoned this thread long ago.


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-Duck-
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Jan 17, 2017 17:21 |  #37

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #18247590 (external link)
Lol. I think the OP has abandoned this thread long ago.

I think he felt a bit beat up. Specially since people keep chiming in with admonitions that have already been stated. After a while it can be overwhelming.

Hopefully he learned something positive, though.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jan 17, 2017 23:45 |  #38

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #18247590 (external link)
Lol. I think the OP has abandoned this thread long ago.

Yeah, he hasn't even been on POTN at all for 9 days (at least not logged in). I wonder if this thread and its responses has made him not want to engage in the POTN community anymore.

I almost sent him a PM yesterday, asking him to check back into this thread and address each of the responses that he's gotten since his last visit, but I decided to give him a few more days. Plus, whenever I send PMs or emails telling people to respond to things here on POTN, they usually ignore me and don't even read the PM. I wish that everybody was super-communicative all of the time.....'twould make the world a better place.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Box ­ Brownie
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Box Brownie. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 23, 2017 11:39 |  #39

If your quality of work is what brings a particular demographic of customer to you then you have no need to educate or justify what you say in your OP.

As far I have been able to learn in social photography (note ~ I am not a social photographer) the average customer does not care two hoots for "the art...", as mentioned by at least one other poster on page #1 all they need to know is what you can do for them and at what price!

Afteral all selling is 'you, we.....then I' [I.e. you want, we will work together, I will meet or exceed your expectations]

If you are feeling under pressure to "educate" then this infers you are not positioning yourself in regard to quality, price, type of customer et al. If you are feeling the need to justify in the face of 'the new world order of digital imagery has low value' (as in many folks opinion ~ free!!!) then again are you aiming at the right market???

Any business where face to face sales happen relies on the customer buying into you and then the product.............fi​nd a way to stand out from the crowd (of other local photographers selling the service on price alone) and you will or should not need to feel pressured into what you say in the OP.

Best of luck :)

PS Sorry if I have (re)covered what may have been posted somewhere in the preceeding 3 pages but life is too short to read them all ;)

Edit
PPS - FWIW I have had a look at your website and IMO you should hive off the Landscape & Scenery portfolio.............​.that dilutes the message that you are a social photographer. Were I you I would setup a new domain to showcase that 'service' (of providing prints, if that is your aim for those images?)


That was a great meal ~ you must have a good set of pans :p
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