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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Urban Life & Travel 
Thread started 23 Dec 2014 (Tuesday) 06:15
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¡Viva España! Post your photos of Spain here ...

 
Owain ­ Shaw
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Feb 07, 2017 07:21 |  #166

It's an area I've seen very little of, unfortunately. Photos I have seen from Girona have been beautiful though so I reckon it must be worth a visit.

This was the closest I've been to Barcelona in quite some time, being as it was in Catalunya, although still pretty far as it was the other side of Tarragona ... Tortosa, an historically important city on the River Ebro.

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/319/32364738120_18ebf05a81_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RiXK​5d  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/291/31930589483_f1183cf0a1_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/QDAB​NT  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/276/31901557114_511e66939f_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/QB2P​uN  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr

The Cathedral, like much of the city, is in mild disrepair ... causes various.
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/525/32364737640_d9a79b0832_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RiXJ​VW  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr

Most people there were speaking Catalan rather than Spanish ...
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/750/32364738540_9c30ae1f10_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RiXK​cs  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr

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Tvw
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Feb 07, 2017 13:11 |  #167

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/255/32597758822_7c3c78f994_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/REy3​1w  (external link) Alhambra sunset in Granada (external link) by Tim van Woensel (external link), on Flickr

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Feb 08, 2017 13:36 |  #168

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/738/32634366882_e2b5078b1c_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RHME​iY  (external link) Door of perfection (external link) by Tim van Woensel (external link), on Flickr

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xochi2
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Feb 08, 2017 14:12 |  #169

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18266754 (external link)
Most people there were speaking Catalan rather than Spanish ...
QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RiXK​cs  (external link) Tortosa, Catalunya (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr

Very nice set. :-) Last one w/tattered Cuban flag on Balcony, like it.


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Feb 08, 2017 14:17 as a reply to  @ Tvw's post |  #170

Looks like; La Alhambra de Granada and La Gran Mezquita de Córdoba to me. Very nice! 8-)


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Post edited over 2 years ago by marcial4. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 08, 2017 16:59 as a reply to  @ xochi2's post |  #171

That's not a cuban flag Xochi2, it's the Estelada Blava, the Flag of Catalan separatism, right now in the region there's a big movement to separate Catalunya from Spain, this flag in the balcony shows some support to the movement and pride to be catalans


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Feb 08, 2017 17:12 |  #172

marcial4 wrote in post #18268165 (external link)
That's not a cuban flag Xochi2, it's the Estelada Blava, the Flag of Catalan separatism, right now in the region there's a big movement to separate Catalunya from Spain, this flag in the balcony shows some support to the movement and the pride to be catalan

Te agradezco, Marcia14 por explicarme. I appreciate it. When I looked at the photo, I wasn't sure if the stripes were the Catalan yellow/red ones or if they were a faded white w/red. This stems back to 1714 (or so). Tough call. Barcelona & Madrid have their similarities, but yet, are very different (IMHO). Sorry about the misinterpretation. Thanks for setting me straight. (Besides, the Cuban stripes are blue/white.)


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Owain ­ Shaw
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Owain Shaw. (4 edits in all)
     
Feb 09, 2017 03:45 |  #173

Those people have been supporting the cause for a while as the flag was pretty weather-beaten and faded. It's a complex issue, that's for sure.

Barcelona being a large, international city has (comparatively) more in common with Madrid and the rest of Spain - there is and has been a lot of national migration there, and of course it's an international destination for both tourism and business ... I've also learned that capital/large cities are not a good indicator for what a country is really like.

Valencia where I currently live is similar in that here in the city, the regional language (Valenciano - a variant of Catalan) is spoken a lot less whereas out in the towns and villages, especially as you head North towards Catalunya, it's much more widely spoken. On this short day trip to Tortosa I noticed the difference ... Catalan was the language spoken in the streets. It's spoken more in Barcelona than Valenciano is in Valencia but again it's the smaller towns where you notice that difference in language and identity that comes with it - these people often feel Catalan firstly, not Spanish. That said, I think few people really feel all that Spanish - there's far more regional pride than national pride throughout the country.

There are also economic arguments but those quickly become erroneous on both sides, in my opinion, and I'm already writing an essay here ... I would just say that while Barcelona is thriving and other areas of Catalunya may enjoy riches from tourism, industry and finance, it's not without its economically deprived areas or the sufferings of post-industrial decline either, nor other political hot potatoes such as national and international migration. Independence isn't a magic wand you can wave to solve everything.

The arguments against separatism are somewhat frustratingly limited (as was also the case with Brexit - and it was this lack of compelling argument against the ill-founded [at best] but attractive-sounding "we'll be able to have it all [just don't ask how exactly]" campaign that led to a disillusioned defeat) to "this is how it currently is so it should stay this way"; "the constitution (of the country you wish to separate from) says No" and "protecting the unity of Spain" as if Spain were some God-ordained (perhaps understandable what with the Nationalist Catholic dictator and all) and defined concept and had never changed ... which it has, albeit not all that recently. Independence or even vaguely sympathetic parties (like Podemos who wish to permit a referendum but would campaign against independence) are deemed Anti-constitutional by the political establishment. None of this helps calm the separatist sentiment.

That said, personally I think the world needs less borders and not more, so in that sense I'm kind of against separatism generally, even if I understand the motives of the people concerned and find the attitudes against it frustratingly simplistic, unsympathetic (as in, not making an effort to understand those motives) and limited.

Flag related jazz ... those Red and Yellow stripes come from the Kingdom of Aragon, whose flag to this day remains a simple set of five yellow and four red stripes. They feature in the flags of Catalunya and Valencia (as well as Spain itself) and reflect that these two regions were once part of the Kingdom of Aragon. Aragon and Castille were united by marriage in the late Medieval period forming the basis of what became Spain. They later re-conquered Andalucia.

My girlfriend has suggested that the whole Catalan debate would be less problematic were the language called Aragonese ... which in effect it is the remnants of, as these regions would have spoken a language distinct from Castellano, which became accepted as Spanish ... it's name reflects that it was the language of Castille though. Another argument levied against Catalan independence is that Catalunya was never a fully-formed nation of its own, merely a part of the Kingdom of Aragon. Were the name of its language a reflection of its Aragonese heritage, those claims might be easier to counter ... but despite being entirely valid, they're too easily dismissed because of mere nomenclature.

In conclusion: America First, Catalunya Second.

EDIT: I've had a quick read of the forum rules and it does say political discussions are not allowed and I might have gone a bit too Political in the Geo-Political/Geo-Historical ramblings above. I've tried not to be partisan ... especially because I don't consider myself to be partisan ... but if anyone feels like a line has been over-stepped I'm happy to either edit or have the post edited. Peace to all.


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xochi2
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Feb 09, 2017 09:45 |  #174

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18268502 (external link)
Those people have been supporting the cause for a while as the flag was pretty weather-beaten and faded. It's a complex issue, that's for sure.

Barcelona being a large, international city has (comparatively) more in common with Madrid and the rest of Spain - there is and has been a lot of national migration there, and of course it's an international destination for both tourism and business ... I've also learned that capital/large cities are not a good indicator for what a country is really like.

Valencia where I currently live is similar in that here in the city, the regional language (Valenciano - a variant of Catalan) is spoken a lot less whereas out in the towns and villages, especially as you head North towards Catalunya, it's much more widely spoken. On this short day trip to Tortosa I noticed the difference ... Catalan was the language spoken in the streets. It's spoken more in Barcelona than Valenciano is in Valencia but again it's the smaller towns where you notice that difference in language and identity that comes with it - these people often feel Catalan firstly, not Spanish. That said, I think few people really feel all that Spanish - there's far more regional pride than national pride throughout the country.

There are also economic arguments but those quickly become erroneous on both sides, in my opinion, and I'm already writing an essay here ... I would just say that while Barcelona is thriving and other areas of Catalunya may enjoy riches from tourism, industry and finance, it's not without its economically deprived areas or the sufferings of post-industrial decline either, nor other political hot potatoes such as national and international migration. Independence isn't a magic wand you can wave to solve everything.

The arguments against separatism are somewhat frustratingly limited (as was also the case with Brexit - and it was this lack of compelling argument against the ill-founded [at best] but attractive-sounding "we'll be able to have it all [just don't ask how exactly]" campaign that led to a disillusioned defeat) to "this is how it currently is so it should stay this way"; "the constitution (of the country you wish to separate from) says No" and "protecting the unity of Spain" as if Spain were some God-ordained (perhaps understandable what with the Nationalist Catholic dictator and all) and defined concept and had never changed ... which it has, albeit not all that recently. Independence or even vaguely sympathetic parties (like Podemos who wish to permit a referendum but would campaign against independence) are deemed Anti-constitutional by the political establishment. None of this helps calm the separatist sentiment.

That said, personally I think the world needs less borders and not more, so in that sense I'm kind of against separatism generally, even if I understand the motives of the people concerned and find the attitudes against it frustratingly simplistic, unsympathetic (as in, not making an effort to understand those motives) and limited.

Flag related jazz ... those Red and Yellow stripes come from the Kingdom of Aragon, whose flag to this day remains a simple set of five yellow and four red stripes. They feature in the flags of Catalunya and Valencia (as well as Spain itself) and reflect that these two regions were once part of the Kingdom of Aragon. Aragon and Castille were united by marriage in the late Medieval period forming the basis of what became Spain. They later re-conquered Andalucia.

My girlfriend has suggested that the whole Catalan debate would be less problematic were the language called Aragonese ... which in effect it is the remnants of, as these regions would have spoken a language distinct from Castellano, which became accepted as Spanish ... it's name reflects that it was the language of Castille though. Another argument levied against Catalan independence is that Catalunya was never a fully-formed nation of its own, merely a part of the Kingdom of Aragon. Were the name of its language a reflection of its Aragonese heritage, those claims might be easier to counter ... but despite being entirely valid, they're too easily dismissed because of mere nomenclature.

In conclusion: America First, Catalunya Second.

EDIT: I've had a quick read of the forum rules and it does say political discussions are not allowed and I might have gone a bit too Political in the Geo-Political/Geo-Historical ramblings above. I've tried not to be partisan ... especially because I don't consider myself to be partisan ... but if anyone feels like a line has been over-stepped I'm happy to either edit or have the post edited. Peace to all.

I will PM you. :-)


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Owain ­ Shaw
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Feb 11, 2017 13:49 |  #175

It's blowing a gale out today, but I do love the seaside in the winter; there's something quite romantic about it ... the wind, cold and rain have given the Malvarrosa a bit of a battering; although it's in better condition than Benicassim was a couple of weeks ago ... anyway ... sand basically ...

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2248/32802117346_06f91c17d7_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RYBq​Fm  (external link) La Malvarrosa (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3850/32719361571_1544d28178_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RRih​gD  (external link) La Malvarrosa (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2051/32719358831_6370f4ee6a_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RRig​sp  (external link) La Malvarrosa (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/748/32719359331_1b3351168b_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/RRig​B2  (external link) La Malvarrosa (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr
IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2420/32028268953_49a61e2289_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/QNef​vF  (external link) La Malvarrosa (external link) by Owain Shaw Photo (external link), en Flickr

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Tvw
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Apr 02, 2017 07:04 |  #176

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ThxR​cT  (external link) The dome of the Salón de Embajadores at the Alcazar of Seville, Spain (external link) by Tim van Woensel (external link), on Flickr

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Apr 02, 2017 10:05 |  #177

¡El Real Alcázar de Sevilla! Love this place! Excellent capture! The crop is extraordinary and its symmetry is exceptional. Hand held? During a tour? EXIF data? Sevilla is a mystical locale. Well done!


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Apr 02, 2017 10:11 |  #178

xochi2 wrote in post #18317440 (external link)
¡El Real Alcázar de Sevilla! Love this place! Excellent capture! The crop is extraordinary and its symmetry is exceptional. Hand held? During a tour? EXIF data? Sevilla is a mystical locale. Well done!

Thanks Xochi2. Yes, it was a handheld shot. The exit data is included (16 mm, iso 3200, F4, 1/15 second.
No, we didn't attend a tour (we're not tourgroup kind of people). Sevilla is a beautiful city. We enjoyed our time in Andalucia very much.


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Apr 02, 2017 17:52 |  #179

Tvw wrote in post #18317444 (external link)
Thanks Xochi2. Yes, it was a handheld shot. The exit data is included (16 mm, iso 3200, F4, 1/15 second.
No, we didn't attend a tour (we're not tourgroup kind of people). Sevilla is a beautiful city. We enjoyed our time in Andalucia very much.

1/15 sec.....exceptional for being hand held. (Not much of a "tour" people ourselves. Prefer to have our freedom to do and go as we see fit. :-) ) Keep up the wonderful work. 8-)


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Apr 30, 2017 07:58 |  #180

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/T4Gh​cC  (external link) The Baths of Lady Mary of Padilla in the Real Alcazar, Sevilla (external link) by Tim van Woensel (external link), on Flickr

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