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Thread started 12 Feb 2017 (Sunday) 10:28
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Laws on using works /on the interwebs/ for a purpose of critique

 
olafs ­ osh
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Feb 12, 2017 10:28 |  #1

Hey!

As my understanding goes, it's perfectly fine to use and publish artist's work, if it's used for research, critique and whatnot. Could someone from US, please, drop a link to actual law?

Background: I will use some randomly images found on the internet to point out things in my opinion on different topics. I really want to have my back covered and do it withing the laws in US and EU. Thanks!


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 12, 2017 10:40 |  #2

olafs osh wrote in post #18271239 (external link)
Hey!

As my understanding goes, it's perfectly fine to use and publish artist's work, if it's used for research, critique and whatnot. Could someone from US, please, drop a link to actual law?

.
Unfortunately, it isn't this easy. Why? Because there are very few laws that say what you can do. Laws are typically written that only say what you cannot do.

Furthermore, here in the U.S. the courts do not seem to have any interest in making the laws (especially intellectual property laws) clear. The standpoint is typically, "do something, then wait to see how the court interprets your action, in relation to the pertinent copyright laws."

In other words, there is no authority you can go to and say, "this is what I plan to do.....is it legal to do it?"

To any question like that, the authorities will respond, "Well, go ahead and do it, and then if anyone has a problem with what you have done, and sues you, we will all sit back and see what the courts determine - then you will have your answer."

That's just how it works.

Because of the nebulous nature of intellectual property law, and to a lesser extent copyright law, forums such as POTN have simple, easy-to-understand rules, such as "If it isn't your photo, you can't post it, period". At least some entities stand up and make things clear and absolute - what a refreshing difference!

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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olafs ­ osh
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Feb 12, 2017 10:47 |  #3

True... I think I actually found the thing... Can't believe what extra five minutes in Google can do! Who would've known!!!

However, there are limits and only a court has the final decision-making ability. Section 107 of the Copyright Act states:

the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

the nature of the copyrighted work; the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Source: 17 USC Section 107.


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Feb 12, 2017 11:00 as a reply to  @ olafs osh's post |  #4

olafs, a troublesome part of the fair-use guidelines is this: "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole." Disputes over fair use often involve published writing, so that quoting a sentence or a paragraph from a book is likely to be permitted but quoting a whole chapter is not. "Quoting" a photo by posting it necessarily means reproducing the whole work.

At POTN, you can't post someone else's photo without permission (not sure about images that are really old, like 100 years), but you can link to it.


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Feb 12, 2017 11:05 |  #5

Olafs, I think you found a useful answer yourself. In my non-legalistic opinion, I think the copyright law boils down to: you can't use somebody's photograph for money-making purposes without their consent and without compensating them.

Practically speaking, while somebody using one of my photographs without my permission is a violation of my copyright, the degree of harm to me is the main consideration. I can't spend my time trying to hunt down every adolescent who uses one of my photos as wallpaper on their smart phone. Although I do recognize that they're probably using a Kardashian or Bieber instead. But if somebody puts it on a t-shirt and sells the t-shirt or uses it to sell beer, then we're going to have words.


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olafs ­ osh
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Feb 12, 2017 11:10 |  #6

So how does this sound? An actual premise: in video I am talking about such horrible thing as selective color. Viewer sees my browser, where I open the unnamed image as an example.


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Feb 12, 2017 11:18 as a reply to  @ olafs osh's post |  #7

I would tread softly on a topic like selective color, specifically with respect to criticism. Somebody might not like the idea that you're heaping ridicule on what they view as their Opus 1. Even if they have no grounds, they could make noises that I'd rather not deal with. But that's me. There are lots of sites about Photoshop disasters.


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Feb 12, 2017 11:24 |  #8

joedlh wrote in post #18271289 (external link)
I would tread softly on a topic like selective color, specifically with respect to criticism. Somebody might not like the idea that you're heaping ridicule on what they view as their Opus 1. Even if they have no grounds, they could make noises that I'd rather not deal with. But that's me. There are lots of sites about Photoshop disasters.

This. In the current milieu, if you're pouring praise onto the work however ugly it is, the author would probably not take issue–may even 'like' it, or link to you as a 'testimonial' of how good he is. If it's the opposite, you might end up in trouble, no matter how right you are.


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olafs ­ osh
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Post edited over 2 years ago by olafs osh.
     
Feb 12, 2017 11:29 |  #9

Oh, looks like I will have to work more to have fun and create my own examples. I surely hope, bad habits won't stick with me :D But, yeah - I guess that would be correct way to do and "fair use" should be used only as emergency or when sure that people won't cause problems.

8-)

oh, and there's always free stock websites! /as much as I hate such thing exists, I could now finally benefit from them/


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Tom Reichner. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 12, 2017 11:41 |  #10

olafs osh wrote in post #18271280 (external link)
So how does this sound? An actual premise: in video I am talking about such horrible thing as selective color. Viewer sees my browser, where I open the unnamed image as an example.

.
It seems rather crass to use another photographer's photo, and then criticize it; put it down. You would be using someone else's work just to say how bad it is, or how wrong it is? Really?

Besides, a lot of people in the "general public" really, REALLY like selective colour. They might feel as though you:

1: .are insulting their tastes

2: .have bad tastes yourself

If you do use other people's work in your videos, then it would be best to use the images in such a way that the photographer does not feel as though you are insulting their work, or speaking poorly of it. When an artist or photographer publicly puts down the work of another photographer or artist, it makes them look really bad and low-class.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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olafs ­ osh
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Feb 12, 2017 11:45 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #11

I will most definitely insult tastes of people, who like selective color. And then they will tell me what an arrogant bastard I am. Ain't that nice?! :D


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 12, 2017 11:50 |  #12

olafs osh wrote in post #18271312 (external link)
I will most definitely insult tastes of people, who like selective color. And then they will tell me what an arrogant bastard I am. Ain't that nice?! :D

No, it isn't nice.

When it comes to our art, we are to exercise freedom, and express ourselves however we may. There are no rules.

When it comes to human interaction, there are standards of decorum and appropriateness that we are all supposed to adhere to, at all times. In these areas, there are rules, and we are to follow them without exception. In other words, you are to remain nice and fluffy at all times, period!

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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olafs ­ osh
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Post edited over 2 years ago by olafs osh. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 12, 2017 12:00 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #13

Emmm... Look. I will use the images just to get a point across. I never planned to say something like "Look at this garbage. It is made by John Johnson and he sucks". Nothing along the lines. Also I do not intend to state something like "If you do/like selective color, you have a bad taste". No. Opinion will be based on me answering the question "why I think like that?". For this particular reason the main topic would be... "[wrong] reasoning behind the matter".

And total haters are everywhere, so not going to please anyone. And I don't want to.

And these ain't apples. In photography world there is so much dirt, it sometimes amazes me. No decorum and appropriateness - just turn your back and start to feel your ears burn. That's why I separated myself from several "high standing" people, because it's just the way they do things. But that's a matter for separate thread already.

P.S. Tom, if you visit youTube, you can join the party (external link) :] There's no videos there yet, though.
....oh, this what long and dry winter months do to you... an efffing YT channel, haha


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Feb 12, 2017 12:09 |  #14

It should be clarified that the Fair Use Doctrine is a defense of Copyright Infringement. It does not negate the infringement, but offers a recognized defense when you are sued in Federal Court in the US. The problem with this is that there are also laws called the DMCA Takedown which require a website to acknowledge and respond promptly to reports of copyright infringement. In the case of your video mocking another photographer's photo, they are very likely to issue a DMCA Takedown to your web/video host and they will usually comply by removing your video. Your legal position may be solid and defensible, but it may become too difficult to host the video.




  
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olafs ­ osh
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Feb 12, 2017 12:11 as a reply to  @ Scott Spellman's post |  #15

Yes. During this thread I made a decision to make my own examples rather to use someone else's. Afterwards we just got carried away with slightly different topic :]


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Laws on using works /on the interwebs/ for a purpose of critique
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