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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 21 Apr 2013 (Sunday) 08:43
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135mm f/1.8 DG OS ART Next from Sigma?

 
oingyboingybob
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Feb 24, 2017 10:44 |  #106

My twopennyworth. At an outlay of (currently) around £350 in the UK I can get hand-held images of this quality with the Samyang 135 F2 (Canon). I appreciate this lens is not F1.8 and does not have IS/OS or any other stabilisation however are we possibly becoming too reliant on the bells and whistles that cost the earth?


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Feb 24, 2017 10:46 |  #107

oingyboingybob wrote in post #18283793 (external link)
My twopennyworth. At an outlay of (currently) around £350 in the UK I can get hand-held images of this quality with the Samyang 135 F2 (Canon). I appreciate this lens is not F1.8 and does not have IS/OS or any other stabilisation however are we possibly becoming too reliant on the bells and whistles that cost the earth?
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Is it too attached, or just allowing you to get more shots...like for instance your dog running...


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oingyboingybob
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Feb 24, 2017 11:00 |  #108

DreDaze wrote in post #18283799 (external link)
Is it too attached, or just allowing you to get more shots...like for instance your dog running...

Sorry but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'is it too attached' however I were looking for 'action/dog running' shots I'd be using my Canon 100-400 II - which is a 'bells and whistles' lens with AF and OS - and is therefore expensive but excellent for a moving target. My post was purely to suggest that a 135 lens, which would generally be considered a portrait or other static subject lens does not have to cost the earth.


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Feb 24, 2017 11:14 |  #109

oingyboingybob wrote in post #18283812 (external link)
Sorry but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'is it too attached' however I were looking for 'action/dog running' shots I'd be using my Canon 100-400 II - which is a 'bells and whistles' lens with AF and OS - and is therefore expensive but excellent for a moving target. My post was purely to suggest that a 135 lens, which would generally be considered a portrait or other static subject lens does not have to cost the earth.

Sorry, i meant are we too reliant on the bells, and whistles, or does it just allow us more opportunities.


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Feb 24, 2017 11:36 |  #110

DreDaze wrote in post #18283792 (external link)
Nobody aside from you has said anything about it hindering anyone's photography...

This was the initial post that you responded to that led down the innovation path

All of it is because there was disagreement on wether mk II's are as innovative as a lens that nobody has thought of before...

It's not that canon has to come up with innovating lenses now, but if this trend continues they'll be left behind pretty quickly...

So then why the complaints about the lack of innovation? I'm just trying to put together here how people are so fired up about it, if it isn't affecting them personally... if it's that big of a deal, just change systems or run dual brands. I'm not arguing right or wrong, I'm just trying to understand. I'll settle with some people care passionately about whatever team they're with, and want them to be the best. That's cool.

The original response was in regards to the complaint about using 20+ year old lenses, which I believe relates to this complaint that the gear not being the hottest thing on market is a drawback. The 135L was referenced as being old and decrepit, yet it's still to this day one of the lenses that draws people to the Canon lineup.

Canon will be left behind how, though? In what meaningful way? I get where you're going with it, and that's what I was saying in my last reply with regards to them getting complacent. But Canon has a mature system on market, and I think that until Sony, Fuji, Sigma, etc. can start taking away share away from that, Canon doesn't have to worry. Where their's and every other DLSR manufacturer has to be concerned about is how they'll continue innovating and releasing better products if their total sales are dwindling due to the obsolescence of the P&S market, etc.



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Post edited over 2 years ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 24, 2017 12:21 as a reply to  @ MatthewK's post |  #111

There was only one complaint about lack of innovation, the rest were discussions about what was or wasn't innovative. ;) You should ask that person why this "lack of innovation" is preventing them from getting what they want.

As to the comments about 20 year old lenses still being good enough, they aren't. With the higher pixel densities and higher resolutions affording for more cropping power, the old selection of lenses aren't always cutting it any more. This is why Sigma and others like Samyang/Rokinon have leaped forward with better resolving lenses, making Canon manufacture higher quality newer versions to keep up.

Once we got past the 4 micron pitch, there were impacts being seen by different copies of older lenses on IQ, during 100% pixel peeping, or those that crop heavily. I know some don't agree, however I have seen it personally. There are some lenses that just don't resolve enough at the pixel level any longer, despite the fact that at these sizes, 100% view is liking sticking your nose on a print. I have compared some of the MKII lenses to the older ones, and whatever they changed optically has made a difference. Whether it was in contrast, color, or detail resolution, the new results are noticeably better, with at least the 3 most discussed MKII lenses (100-400, 24-70 and 70-200 2.8).


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Feb 24, 2017 12:44 |  #112

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18283910 (external link)
There was only one complaint about lack of innovation, the rest were discussions about what was or wasn't innovative. ;) You should ask that person why this "lack of innovation" is preventing them from getting what they want.

As to the comments about 20 year old lenses still being good enough, they aren't. With the higher pixel densities and higher resolutions affording for more cropping power, the old selection of lenses aren't always cutting it any more. This is why Sigma and others like Samyang/Rokinon have leaped forward with better resolving lenses, making Canon manufacture higher quality newer versions to keep up.

Once we got past the 4 micron pitch, there were impacts being seen by different copies of older lenses on IQ, during 100% pixel peeping, or those that crop heavily. I know some don't agree, however I have seen it personally. There are some lenses that just don't resolve enough at the pixel level any longer, despite the fact that at these sizes, 100% view is liking sticking your nose on a print. I have compared some of the MKII lenses to the older ones, and whatever they changed optically has made a difference. Whether it was in contrast, color, or detail resolution, the new results are noticeably better, with at least the 3 most discussed MKII lenses (100-400, 24-70 and 70-200 2.8).

well maybe. some older primes could still resolve very very high, especially in the central area. There are even some zooms that are said to resolve even higher than modern lenses. When it comes to primes, old stuff from contax can resolve very high


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Post edited over 2 years ago by MatthewK.
     
Feb 24, 2017 13:06 |  #113

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18283910 (external link)
There was only one complaint about lack of innovation, the rest were discussions about what was or wasn't innovative. ;) You should ask that person why this "lack of innovation" is preventing them from getting what they want.

As to the comments about 20 year old lenses still being good enough, they aren't. With the higher pixel densities and higher resolutions affording for more cropping power, the old selection of lenses aren't always cutting it any more. This is why Sigma and others like Samyang/Rokinon have leaped forward with better resolving lenses, making Canon manufacture higher quality newer versions to keep up.

Once we got past the 4 micron pitch, there were impacts being seen by different copies of older lenses on IQ, during 100% pixel peeping, or those that crop heavily. I know some don't agree, however I have seen it personally. There are some lenses that just don't resolve enough at the pixel level any longer, despite the fact that at these sizes, 100% view is liking sticking your nose on a print. I have compared some of the MKII lenses to the older ones, and whatever they changed optically has made a difference. Whether it was in contrast, color, or detail resolution, the new results are noticeably better, with at least the 3 most discussed MKII lenses (100-400, 24-70 and 70-200 2.8).

The discussion has meandered a bit, and that's ok. We're all passionate about photography, and that's all that matters. Hope everyone has a good weekend!



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Feb 24, 2017 13:17 |  #114

Charlie wrote in post #18283928 (external link)
well maybe. some older primes could still resolve very very high, especially in the central area. There are even some zooms that are said to resolve even higher than modern lenses. When it comes to primes, old stuff from contax can resolve very high

I agree, it seems that Canon is really concentrating on their zooms right now for the most part. The 85L is an odd one, I think they just tried to make a faster AF lens with that version.

However the 16-35, 70-200, 100-400, 24-70, 24-105 and others I might be missing are all being reworked. It is questionable on how much better the 24-105 really is, but for majority of the other zooms, the MKII is noticeably better. For example, the 70-200 II I have, I was able to compare to my MKI side by side. The MKII has better contrast, and thus seem sharper, and also it resolves detail at the 100% level a bit better. The combination of changes was quite noticeable during cropping and post processing.

I have no idea what they are doing with the kit lens arena, we are now on the 7th or 8th version of the 18-55 lens now as of the 77D release. I wish more attention would be paid to other lenses personally.


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Feb 25, 2017 00:21 |  #115

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18283910 (external link)
There was only one complaint about lack of innovation, the rest were discussions about what was or wasn't innovative. ;) You should ask that person why this "lack of innovation" is preventing them from getting what they want.

For me (and I suspect others), innovative products allow more opportunities.


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Feb 25, 2017 07:13 as a reply to  @ cwphoto's post |  #116

What can't you shoot today with canon because of something they didn't create for you?


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Feb 25, 2017 08:07 |  #117

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18284586 (external link)
What can't you shoot today with canon because of something they didn't create for you?

For a start, how about ultra-wide minimum noise/movement astro?


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Feb 25, 2017 12:17 as a reply to  @ cwphoto's post |  #118

The 7d2 is one of the best astro bodies as tested by Clark... it has very low long exposure noise even beating out FF. Ultra wide is your lens selection and there are many options for that. What other non Canon equipment would you use to do this? For movement, you just get a tracker like everyone else.

Not only that, this request is a niche market request in the sense that the equipment now can do most of that now, and it isn't the majority of what is being shot daily, so to do something better for this area than what exists now has to have a return on investment.


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Feb 25, 2017 13:05 |  #119

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18284761 (external link)
The 7d2 is one of the best astro bodies as tested by Clark... it has very low long exposure noise even beating out FF. Ultra wide is your lens selection and there are many options for that. What other non Canon equipment would you use to do this? For movement, you just get a tracker like everyone else.

Not only that, this request is a niche market request in the sense that the equipment now can do most of that now, and it isn't the majority of what is being shot daily, so to do something better for this area than what exists now has to have a return on investment.

So how about a fast 2.8 or better UWA lens from canon made for crop cameras then instead of having to buy a MF rokinon or archaic clutch motor Tokina to use with that great 7D2? Canon makes nothing faster than 2.8 and wider than 24mm equivalent for crop.


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Feb 25, 2017 13:24 |  #120

FEChariot wrote in post #18284801 (external link)
So how about a fast 2.8 or better UWA lens from canon made for crop cameras then instead of having to buy a MF rokinon or archaic clutch motor Tokina to use with that great 7D2? Canon makes nothing faster than 2.8 and wider than 24mm equivalent for crop.

It'd be awesome to have a 16-35 f/2.8 equivalent for APS-C. How difficult would it be for them to make the 10-22 into an f/2.8?



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