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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 05 Apr 2017 (Wednesday) 10:41
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New (to me) kit for High School Soccer

 
sporadic
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Post edited over 1 year ago by sporadic. (3 edits in all)
     
Apr 05, 2017 10:41 |  #1

A few years ago I made the switch to Fuji (X-T1) and sold all my Canon gear. Before the switch I had been shooting kids rec league soccer with a 7D and 70-200 2.8 mkii. I loved the setup, but found it to be a little on the short side once the kids moved up to full field soccer. A 1.4x teleconverter helped to rectify the situation, but I eventually sold everything off and switched to Fuji. I had neck surgery a few years before and required a lighter kit for traveling, so I basically gave up my ability to shoot sports for a lighter travel kit that wouldn't kill my neck.

Fast forward a few years later.. Oldest is now playing JV soccer and I'm wanting to get back into it, on a some-what budget. We're in mid-season right now so I'm giving myself until next year to pull something together. Fuji glass is out of the question as the 50-140 is too short and 100-400 is too slow. Even if the glass hit the mark, the X-T1 just doesn't have the ergonomics for shooting sports. What I'm looking for is bang-for-your-buck used gear targeted at high school soccer. Games will be later in the evening once she progresses to Varsity, so I'm looking for glass I can hang on to for the next 5+ years. I was originally considering another 7D + 300 f/4, but have a feeling it won't be fast enough once she starts playing the later Varsity games. I'm debating stretching my budget out to a used 7DmkII or 1DmkIV + 300 f/2.8 (gen1 / non-is) as well. I'm not locked into a Canon solution either, just not familiar with Nikon's options. This will be hand-held setup, appreciate and feed-back / suggestions / pointers to other options I should be considering.

Final note... There's no professional photography done at the events and it's not a money gig for me. It's just for the team and parents. Thanks!


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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sporadic
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Apr 06, 2017 12:02 |  #2

Think I'm leaning towards the following right now (all used):
7D Mark II, 5D Mark III, or 1D Mark IV + 300 F/4

or if I can find a good deal on a clean older 2.8:
7D + 300 F/2.8 (gen1 / non-is)

The 7D2 + 300 F/4 seems to be the cheapest route at 1500 - 1700. Would be the lightest option as well which my neck would like. Anyone shoot this combo? How do you like it? Never owned a long prime so it'd be a learning curve for me as well. The 70-200 made things easy, just didn't have the reach I need now.


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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chrisa
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Apr 07, 2017 08:06 |  #3

I have that exact setup now. When I shot highschool soccer I only had a 50D with the 300 f/4 and a 30D with a 70-200 f/2.8. The 300 is great for daytime soccer, the 70-200 came in handy when the action got closer.




  
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JeffreyG
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Apr 07, 2017 14:22 |  #4

Are you just shooting your own kid, or planning to shoot the entire team?

I find that working with primes, even just a single prime, is fine for when you are hunting just your own kid. In that case I think the 7D2, 300/4 or 300/2.8 and a 1.4X TC would be about perfect.

The faster 300/2.8 is tempting for night, but I tend to bin a lot of night stuff because the lighting is unattractive, never mind noise concerns. And through a whole season looking for one kid, you should get plenty of shots in decent light to pick from.

If you are stalking the whole team, a zoom lens is more convenient as you can work near and far players as the game develops and not have to abandon shots due to framing. In this case the Sigma 120-300/2.8 Sport with a 1.4X TC option matches up well. I have the Sigma. The AF is not quite that of the Canon white primes, but it is nearly there and delivers a lot of shots.


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TSORoanoke
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Post edited over 1 year ago by TSORoanoke. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 07, 2017 20:12 |  #5

I use 7DMkII, 100-400 4.5-5.6 L IS II. Plus monopod. I set up for 2000 shutter speed, as wide open as it will allow, and let ISO change as needed. Only in the absolutely worst field lighting have I had any serious image issues, and I am shooting JPG, not RAW. Link is here https://ostasiewski.sm​ugmug.com/2017/HHS-Varsity-Soccer (external link) for examples. I too only shoot for the team/players, not for money, etc. I typically set up in a corner of the field and stay there, so I have to reach the entire length of the field.




  
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sporadic
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Apr 08, 2017 06:36 |  #6

TSORoanoke wrote in post #18322310 (external link)
I use 7DMkII, 100-400 4.5-5.6 L IS II. Plus monopod. I set up for 2000 shutter speed, as wide open as it will allow, and let ISO change as needed. Only in the absolutely worst field lighting have I had any serious image issues, and I am shooting JPG, not RAW. Link is here https://ostasiewski.sm​ugmug.com/2017/HHS-Varsity-Soccer (external link) for examples. I too only shoot for the team/players, not for money, etc. I typically set up in a corner of the field and stay there, so I have to reach the entire length of the field.

That combo looks to be working pretty well, thanks!

JeffreyG wrote in post #18322110 (external link)
Are you just shooting your own kid, or planning to shoot the entire team?

I find that working with primes, even just a single prime, is fine for when you are hunting just your own kid. In that case I think the 7D2, 300/4 or 300/2.8 and a 1.4X TC would be about perfect.

The faster 300/2.8 is tempting for night, but I tend to bin a lot of night stuff because the lighting is unattractive, never mind noise concerns. And through a whole season looking for one kid, you should get plenty of shots in decent light to pick from.

If you are stalking the whole team, a zoom lens is more convenient as you can work near and far players as the game develops and not have to abandon shots due to framing. In this case the Sigma 120-300/2.8 Sport with a 1.4X TC option matches up well. I have the Sigma. The AF is not quite that of the Canon white primes, but it is nearly there and delivers a lot of shots.

Planning to shoot the team, but the Sigma 2.8 would be out of my funding reach. I'm going to give the prime a shot and focus on different positions moving around depending on rhythm of the game.

I pulled the trigger much earlier than planned. I ended up staying way below budget by grabbing a well loved 7D and 300 F/4 IS, spending much less than I had originally intended. So much, I could still add a used 7DmkII or 100-400 if I really need it. I'm pretty confident it'll meet my performance needs for JV based on previous experiences with the 7D and 70-200 2.8 + 1.4tc. This biggest problem will be me getting adjusted to a prime for this. I'll have plenty of time to upgrade before she starts the later Varsity games and should have no problem re-selling this gear if it doesn't work out. I couldn't believe how cheap 7D's are now, amazing deals out there.


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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tmalone893
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Apr 08, 2017 06:44 |  #7

sporadic wrote in post #18322543 (external link)
That combo looks to be working pretty well, thanks!

Planning to shoot the team, but the Sigma 2.8 would be out of my funding reach. I'm going to give the prime a shot and focus on different positions moving around depending on rhythm of the game.

I pulled the trigger much earlier than planned. I ended up staying way below budget by grabbing a well loved 7D and 300 F/4 IS, spending much less than I had originally intended. So much, I could still add a used 7DmkII or 100-400 if I really need it. I'm pretty confident it'll meet my performance needs for JV based on previous experiences with the 7D and 70-200 2.8 + 1.4tc. This biggest problem will be me getting adjusted to a prime for this. I'll have plenty of time to upgrade before she starts the later Varsity games and should have no problem re-selling this gear if it doesn't work out. I couldn't believe how cheap 7D's are now, amazing deals out there.

Look at the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 OS. Its the same optics as the Sport model and around 1200-1600 used. I have that lens and love it. Granted I use my 400mm most of the time but I like using the Sigma on baseball, volleyball, and some soccer.


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bildeb0rg
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Apr 09, 2017 06:39 |  #8

i've not shot a lot of soccer recently but this https://dmpix.smugmug.​com …ngers-vs-Sessay/i-M348GXS (external link) gallery has pics from 1D mkIII and 6D with a non i.s. 300f2.8 in progressively worsening light. using a prime is more work, but gives you a variety of framing thru the game as play moves around you that you may not get with a zoom




  
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sporadic
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Post edited over 1 year ago by sporadic.
     
Apr 10, 2017 08:26 |  #9

Took the X-T1 and 55-200 to our rec league game this past weekend. Plenty of light for these daytime games, but I had to keep the 55-200 at 5.6 to get a constant aperture throughout the zoom range. I won't be as close shooting the JV games, but it did make me realize how much I was relying on the ability to zoom. The EVF blackout and lag when shooting burst on the X-T1 made it VERY difficult capture any intense ball action. The lens range was decent from mid-field to me (positioned at corner), still a lot of cropping in post however. I definitely miss the isolation my old 7D + 70-200 2.8 gave me, but love the output of the X-T1. I've read that the EVF blackout / lag is greatly improved in the X-T2, but that's not a $1600 experiment I'm willing to take. Unfortunately, no where locally where I can go test drive one. The 7D and 300 F/4 IS will be here this week, so really hoping it fits a happy middle ground. The light situation seems to be not as bad as I was expecting for late afternoon games either, so a 100-400 may be in my future if I can't meld with the 300 F/4. Here's a couple from last weekend with the X-T1 + 55-200.

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3948/33815037892_6b9273e5af_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Tw7U​EG  (external link)
DSCF4406 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2818/33912224836_a890622ee5_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TEH1​XE  (external link)
DSCF4445 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2903/33823105961_8718e514eb_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TwQg​2k  (external link)
DSCF4527 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2880/33139924803_49d0f0dcc2_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SusM​4R  (external link)
DSCF4583 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2828/33568087540_b0e38b042f_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/T9id​W1  (external link)
DSCF4557 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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Sibil
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Apr 10, 2017 08:46 |  #10

For daytime soccer, 7D and 70-300L was my standard setup for years, and it served me well. Of course there are newer and better options out there, these days.




  
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Hannya
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Hannya.
     
Apr 11, 2017 15:39 |  #11

I'm currently using 1Dmk4/70-200mm f/2.8 and a 7D and a 300mm f/4. If you only have a 70-200mm then its a matter of waiting for the action to come to your quadrant of the pitch. And then move your position once or twice to capture other players. The 300mm is too long when the action comes into your half of the pitch. I find that there's often too much clutter in terms of players running across the action but I have had some great shots as well. Use a cross-body strap for the 70--200mm lens and a monopod for the 300mm, then its manageable.


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sporadic
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Apr 18, 2017 09:31 |  #12

Had my first outing with the 7D + 300 F/4 "new to me" combo last night. Definitely missed the zoom at times. Found it very hard to get head on action unless it was far out. Mostly back shots and goalie shots. The experience also made me realize why so many people back-button focus. I had tried it before with my 70-200, but was never a fan. At 300mm with the clutter of players on the field however, back-button focus would be VERY helpful. Definitely a learning curve and I plan on sticking with the combo for what's left of the season, then evaluate what I want to change. It also took a lot getting use to exposure evaluation based off the meter, constantly changing shutter speed anywhere from 1-2 stops depending on which side of the field I was shooting. The X-T1 EVF has me spoiled in that aspect, where i can quickly change shutter speed and see the results real-time. Given that light was much better than expected, I have GAS for a gripped X-T2 and 100-400, but that's just out of the budget right now :) Here's a couple from the 7D + 300 F/4, nothing stellar.

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2816/34118806905_91630bc078_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TYXN​Bt  (external link)
IMG_0107 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/33961710332_68656974eb_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TK5D​gS  (external link)
IMG_0120 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2812/33961726532_a33339224b_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TK5J​6b  (external link)
IMG_0132 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2874/33307404193_3ceb1edf75_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SKg9​Rx  (external link)
IMG_0211 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2867/33988637191_659bce1e51_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/TMsD​G4  (external link)
IMG_0152 (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr

Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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Apr 19, 2017 08:34 |  #13

300mm is fine but as soon as the action comes towards you it rapidly becomes a bit too long. The other issue, you've discovered, is that its hard to get a clear shot without someone wandering across the scene. I use BB focussing, but my 7D's autofocus is a bit slow to lock on. Quite a bit in this gallery on the 300mm if it helps. http://photodiva.zenfo​lio.com/p426131521 (external link)


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john ­ crossley
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Apr 19, 2017 09:32 |  #14

sporadic wrote in post #18331078 (external link)
Had my first outing with the 7D + 300 F/4 "new to me" combo last night. Definitely missed the zoom at times. Found it very hard to get head on action unless it was far out. Mostly back shots and goalie shots. The experience also made me realize why so many people back-button focus. I had tried it before with my 70-200, but was never a fan. At 300mm with the clutter of players on the field however, back-button focus would be VERY helpful. Definitely a learning curve and I plan on sticking with the combo for what's left of the season, then evaluate what I want to change. It also took a lot getting use to exposure evaluation based off the meter, constantly changing shutter speed anywhere from 1-2 stops depending on which side of the field I was shooting. The X-T1 EVF has me spoiled in that aspect, where i can quickly change shutter speed and see the results real-time. Given that light was much better than expected, I have GAS for a gripped X-T2 and 100-400, but that's just out of the budget right now :) Here's a couple from the 7D + 300 F/4, nothing stellar.

Two things:
1) shoot in AV with the lens wide open, that way you will always be shooting at the fastest possible shutter speed.
2) stand behind the goal line, that way you will get the players running down the wing towards you.


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sporadic
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Apr 19, 2017 09:46 |  #15

john crossley wrote in post #18331965 (external link)
Two things:
1) shoot in AV with the lens wide open, that way you will always be shooting at the fastest possible shutter speed.
2) stand behind the goal line, that way you will get the players running down the wing towards you.

Never had much luck with AV as I always found myself having to ride exposure compensation when the sun is real harsh. It does work well however if its overcast / cloudy.
Staying behind the goal line on the recc fields wasn't an issue with my 70-200, however with the 300 I would only be capturing midfield and beyond action. Also, behind the goal isn't accessible on many of the high school fields we play on. Had another game last night and think I had more keepers. Haven't had a chance to cull them yet.


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
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New (to me) kit for High School Soccer
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