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Thread started 16 Apr 2017 (Sunday) 19:32
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Luminosity Masking Plugin - Opinions Please

 
lacogada
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Apr 18, 2017 17:48 |  #31

Damo77 wrote in post #18331355 (external link)
Then this is madness. DON'T waste your money.

I think they could help speed up certain things ... and not that expensive.




  
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lacogada
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Apr 18, 2017 17:50 |  #32

monty87 wrote in post #18331219 (external link)
No the color range does not do the same thing. Think of luminosity mask selection based on lights to dark zones in your image. In Photoshop on blank canvas create a gradient from white to black. The white part signifies the highlights and the black the shadows, with the center gray as your midpoint. Now apply different luminosity mask too see how the selection is done and the mask is created. Then you create mask just for the zone you want to edit like doing curves or levels.

Thanks.




  
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lacogada
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Apr 18, 2017 17:50 |  #33

F2Bthere ... thanks for all that info.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Apr 18, 2017 18:30 |  #34

F2Bthere wrote in post #18331390 (external link)
Not sure where your passion comes from, but it appears to be from ignorance.

He sells photoshop tutoring to beginners.

Damien, I'm not calling you out or putting you down. I've seen what you do with Photoshop and you definitely know your stuff. But you are, by your own admission, not a photographer. We all have vastly different perspectives. I mentioned earlier in this thread that time is money, later you asked "what image" was the OP working on? While he may be interested in a single image, often hundreds of images could be needing to be edited. Or, maybe he just wants a jumping off point to learn techniques.

The Luminzia guy offers actions and tutorials for masking for free, and he sells the plug in for people who need it. There is room for both solutions for individuals with different needs.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Damo77
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Apr 18, 2017 19:40 |  #35

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18331557 (external link)
While he may be interested in a single image, often hundreds of images could be needing to be edited.

Yes, and I think it would be immensely beneficial to see one of them.


Damien
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kirkt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by kirkt. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 18, 2017 20:36 |  #36

I use both the TK panel (now in version 5) and Lumenzia. In general, panels that run code will execute operations with more sophistication and do it faster than a recorded action. As of v5, the TK panels now generate 16bit masks (that is, they are no longer based on selections, which produce 8 bit masks). Lumenzia also generates 16bit masks unless the masks are based on selections (like a vignette).

Both are versatile and offer features beyond luminosity masking and also provide workflow helpers and finishing tools (sharpening, dodge/burn, vignette, etc.). The one aspect of Lumenzia that might appeal to the control freak in all of us is the method by which the mask is generated and the layer stack that generates the mask - it is exposed to the user so it can be tuned individually. The TK panels can be a little dizzying, but the newest version (v5) has slimmed down and is better organized than previous versions. Lumenzia is also compact and has a clean interface.

In either case, take the time to read the instructions and view the tutorial videos that the creators have provided - both have excellent support in this regard, although not all for free. If you purchase the TK panel, you should consider purchasing the video series that accompanies it, produced by long-time collaborator Sean Bagshaw. It will help you understand the TK methodology and the specifics of each panel section and panel operation. In addition to Greg Benz's (Lumenzia's creator) series of tutorial videos, he has an active Google+ community of Lumenzia users and interacts there regularly, often asking users for feedback and suggestions for features and improvements.

Of course one may be able to produce similar results without the convenience of panels, given enough time and Photoshop chops. In fact, you should learn to create these channel-based and luminosity-based masks by hand and do it a few times so that you understand the process and what it takes to build the masks - not to waste time, but to appreciate the various ways you can visualize and use channels as masks. However, if you are not into manually creating layer stacks with hundreds of layers and channels that you need to manage and manipulate to produce the result you want, the convenience and accuracy of these panels is worth the price alone. The ability to experiment with them makes them indispensable when evaluating an image.

I would also strongly suggest that you take a look at an extension called Channel Power Tools:

http://www.knowhowtran​sfer.com …iting-workflow-optimizer/ (external link)

written by Giuliana Abbiati, one of the gifted programmers and image processing professionals in the Dan Margulis camp. Again, once you learn to use channels to visualize your image data and manipulate it, these tools make life a lot easier - no more having to Apply Image and Calculations over and over.

I use these tools mostly when I have a scene with an extended dynamic range and I need to manually tone the image into a perceptually convincing rendering of the scene. Isolating tonal ranges and being able to move them around, add global and local contrast, etc. with masks that provide natural fall-off and accurate, predictable and repeatable tonal range (or color range) is critical.

Good luck,

kirk


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Charlie
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Apr 18, 2017 22:01 |  #37

looked at some panels, and Lumenzia won it for me. It's so light and clean, just not a lot of overhead.


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Apr 20, 2017 08:23 |  #38

Were I buying a LM tool from scratch, I might pick another. However, I already own Raya Pro.

Yesterday I got my email about InstaMask (a new, separate panel, but included with Raya Pro.)

I'm not sure I need to change now.

This video (external link) introduces the InstaMask panel.

It's looking pretty darn powerful to me.


Website (external link) |

  
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DagoImaging
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Apr 20, 2017 12:36 |  #39

I agree PNC, the new insta mask is very nice.


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Vitoflo
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Apr 20, 2017 15:52 |  #40

I think luminosity masks stem from density masks. It's something that people in the prepress industry used way before Photoshop.

Color Range has highlighs/midtones/sha​dows in the select box. Also, in most images red channel=highlight, green=midtones, blue=shadows.

I don't like how luminosity masks are generated. Best practice would be to use the R-G-B channels to add/subtract/intersect from each other to generate true density masks.

For example:

1) Ctrl + click on Blue channel and inverse.
2) Ctrl + alt + click on Blue channel to subtract.
3) Hold down ctrl + alt + shift + click on Red channel (2/3 times to narrow down) to intersect.
3) Pull a curve in the layer palette and look at the histogram (midtones selected).

Apply images also does a great job when it comes to masking.

The tilde button reveals how the density mask looks over the image (channel options: selected areas).




  
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F2Bthere
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Apr 20, 2017 21:41 |  #41

Vitoflo wrote in post #18333249 (external link)
I think luminosity masks stem from density masks. It's something that people in the prepress industry used way before Photoshop.

Color Range has highlighs/midtones/sha​dows in the select box. Also, in most images red channel=highlight, green=midtones, blue=shadows.

I don't like how luminosity masks are generated. Best practice would be to use the R-G-B channels to add/subtract/intersect from each other to generate true density masks.

For example:

1) Ctrl + click on Blue channel and inverse.
2) Ctrl + alt + click on Blue channel to subtract.
3) Hold down ctrl + alt + shift + click on Red channel (2/3 times to narrow down) to intersect.
3) Pull a curve in the layer palette and look at the histogram (midtones selected).

Apply images also does a great job when it comes to masking.

The tilde button reveals how the density mask looks over the image (channel options: selected areas).

Yes. A lot of the vital core of PS is lifted straight out of prepress and for good reason. Prepress men and women were (and are) image experts.

Luminosity masks are generated in a number of ways and, as you suggest, some are better than others. I think that many methods rely upon the channels, as you suggest, and this does have the advantage of preserving the 16-bit tonal range in 16-bit images.

Color range selections can be a bit rough and care needs to be used when they are applied.


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lacogada
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Apr 21, 2017 05:57 as a reply to  @ Vitoflo's post |  #42

Interesting Vitoflo ... thanks.




  
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Vitoflo
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Vitoflo. (6 edits in all)
     
Apr 21, 2017 06:00 |  #43

Allow me to give other examples:

(select 3/4 tones - shadows)

1) Ctrl + click on Red channel and inverse.
2) Ctrl + alt + click on Green channel to subtract the green channel from the selection (2/3 times to narrow down).

(select highlights - 1/4 tones)

1) Ctrl + click on RGB channel to select it.
2) Hold down ctrl + alt + shift + click on RGB channel (2/3 times to narrow down) to intersect.

The same would apply to CMY channels. Ctrl+m on the mask to refine it.

Those above come from a video were professional retoucher Chris Tarantino was discussing density masks and channel blending.

In addition one can generate density masks thru the use of Apply Image (on layer mask) by selecting in the dialog box Layer=background, Channel=RGB, blending=multiply. When "invert" is unchecked the mask is based on the midtone/highlight areas . Invert checked selects the midtones/shadows area. In order to narrow down the selection one can call Apply Image on the same mask 2/3 times (multiplying the mask by itself to isolate more towars shadows or highlights).

The adjustment layer I would use more with density masks is Color Balance but that's just a matter of choice.

Also, when calling Apply Image on the same mask on a curves adjustment layer have a look at how the histogram shifts towards highlight or shadows (according on the invert checkbox).




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Apr 21, 2017 07:02 |  #44

I use to do a sort of photographic mask building.

The process is based on using a type of paper or film that will expose to only black or white/clear. i worked prepress in flexography so lots of what we were doing was not really creating masks, but occasionally we would use the same materials to do more complex work.

The simple process involved a huge repro camera and exposing the substrate for the perfect amount of time. If you have a dark brown image on a craft brown piece of cardboard, you just have to figure out when one color would expose the substrate but the other wouldn't, with the baseline being that the craft brown typically exposed at X seconds. If you wanted to pull lighter artwork off, you had a negative. If you wanted to pull a darker color off, you had a positive. Of course, we had paper that would expose one way or the other.

Multiple color originals could be shot with different exposures to get each color on a different "mask". Then you hit the light table and retouched each by hand to make sure everything was just right.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Luminosity Masking Plugin - Opinions Please
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